Make it a Little Less Sucky | BLVCK HIPPIE | music.gay

Exploring Identity, Artistry and Music with Josh Shaw (Blvck Hippie) - with just a touch of cultish upbringings (in keeping with tradition).

In this episode of Music.gay, join me (Franki, he/him/any) and Josh Shaw (they/them), AKA BLVCK HIPPIE, an indie rocker from Memphis. Discover their musical journey, influences, and the significance of creating art that resonates with outsider black kids and the broader community. Dive into their upbringing in a religious household, the path to self-discovery, candid stories about their first recording experiences, and thoughts on identity and the power of music. Learn about their latest album 'Basketball Camp' and their vision for creating a more inclusive artistic space.

Subscribe for more stories of creativity, identity, and the transformative power of music. Follow Josh on Instagram @blvckhippie901 and visit www.blvckhippie.com to support dope indie music. Like and comment to join our conversation!

00:00 Introduction to Josh Shaw AKA Black Hippie
02:37 Josh's Musical Journey and Influences
05:37 College Life and Musical Evolution
13:16 First Performances and Finding Confidence
17:29 Challenges and Triumphs in the Music Industry
21:53 Creating the Song 'Chairman Drive'
29:40 Home Core and Personal Hobbies
34:00 Living with Girlfriend and Friends
34:28 Navigating Identity and Marginalization
36:45 Personal Growth and Acceptance
39:00 Balancing Identities and Code Switching
40:29 Being Vocal About Queerness
45:34 Dreams and Aspirations
47:57 Touring and Achievements
49:02 Advice to Younger Self
52:18 Lightning Round Questions
01:00:05 Conclusion and Farewell


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Transcript

[00:00:00] Josh: Everything kind of sucks right now. And I feel like I It's my job. It's like my calling to create art, to make it a little less sucky or to help things get better in any kind of capacity. So I just want to like make art that matters.

[00:00:20] Franki: Welcome to music. gay. My guest today is Josh Shaw, AKA Black Hippie. Josh is a Memphis based indie rocker. Who's just as likely to push a boundary as they are to push a VHS into a tape machine or a skateboard onto a vert ramp. And I don't actually know that the latter one is true, but, um, the Midwest emo skater kids that I grew up with, but definitely have bumped their music.

[00:00:42] So I think that at least paints a picture for you. Josh is a beacon for outsiders with jagged edges. And their music accepts that things don't always fit in, and probably shouldn't, and that the status quo might as well be as dead as the Latin in which it's written. What they intentionally avoid and finesse, they more than make up [00:01:00] for by being earnest, poetic, and as raw as a spliff paper, and perhaps just as sticky.

[00:01:05] Their guitar cries while their voice pleads, and their music puts you up on meat hooks. While their lyrics gently flay the flesh off your weary bones. If you've ever felt like you're living in the land of the misfits, which, let's be honest, if you're listening to this podcast, you probably have a timeshare in a summerhouse there, then Black Hippie just might be your jam.

[00:01:24] Their mission is to show black kids that they can be weird too. And let's be real, we all love weird kids here because most of us are just weird kids here. Josh has a new album. It just dropped on June 14th. It's called Basketball Camp, and it's amazing. It's as theatrical and confronting as it is comforting and sonically immense.

[00:01:43] Black Hippie is currently wrapping, wrapping up a tour in the South and in the Midwest and some in the North as well. You can find any upcoming shows. You can find videos. You can find great merch and music online at www. blackhippie. com. And that's spelled B L [00:02:00] V C K H I P P I E. com. You can also find them on Insta at Black Hippie spelled the same way with the V instead of an A, 901, which.

[00:02:11] I'm guessing is Memphis area code. Is that right? 

[00:02:14] Josh: Yeah. 

[00:02:15] Franki: Josh, it's so nice to get a chance to talk with you. Welcome to the show. 

[00:02:19] Josh: That was an amazing intro. I need you to like, follow me around like the house every day. I feel down on myself. That was, I was poetic. I was sitting, I was like, Ooh, yeah, you could just loop this.

[00:02:29] Franki: You could just loop this intro for yourself and you did a hype man. All right. I will say, well, give me a call. 

[00:02:34] Josh: The skateboarding is accurate. I did used to skate back in the day. My greatest claim to fame was I landed a kickflip, uh, And, uh, urban outfitters, moccasins, that is like, yo, that was my peak of skateboarding.

[00:02:48] And then it was all downhill 

[00:02:49] Franki: from there. 

[00:02:50] Josh: All downhill. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess not to be punny, but it was all downhill. Like downhill. 

[00:02:55] Franki: Yeah. Yeah. Love that. All right. So let's, let's jump into this. Right. Let's say I'm [00:03:00] like a booking agent. I don't know, someone at a new label that you want to get affiliated with and we're stuck on an elevator together.

[00:03:06] We're going up to the penthouse suite and we got like, you know, a couple minutes and I ask you, so Josh, tell me, what is it that you do? 

[00:03:14] Josh: Uh, what I do is I create art for outsider black kids and anyone else that feels like alone and not cared about. And I package all of those emotions into a bunch of weird guitar music that, you know, Uh, doesn't really stick to any kind of like preconceived notions or genres.

[00:03:34] I just kind of just do whatever I want and I scream live. That's pretty much the gist. Yeah. 

[00:03:41] Franki: I think that's a neat little summary right there. Um, yeah, it is. It's not really genre, right? Like when I hear your music, I'm like, Yes, this is rock. Yes, this is indie. Yes, this is emo. Yes, what is this? You know, like it's, there's little moments that you can find in other music.

[00:03:59] Like what [00:04:00] inspired you growing up that you may be pulled from to make the music that you're making now? 

[00:04:05] Josh: So I feel like I, I didn't grow up in like a musical household at all. So 

[00:04:08] Franki: like, 

[00:04:09] Josh: And I, I feel like I didn't really start listening to like my own music, like that I picked until I was probably like 11 or 12.

[00:04:15] My brother got like an MP3 player, but I was like growing up on a lot of like eighties music, a lot of like, uh, old seventies, like R and B, a lot of like, there's like the police, like Marvin Gaye, all this, like a huge, like a collective group, like kinds of music because my parents like listen to everything.

[00:04:28] So like, I was listening to a lot of that stuff. And then when I was around 11 or 12, my brother got this small creative Zen MP3 player, and you could record stuff off the radio and like play it Like put songs on there. So like that was around the time where I started like listening to my own music So I was like listening to like a lot of like rap at the time a lot of like lincoln park and like 

[00:04:46] Franki: yeah 

[00:04:47] Josh: This like that one japanese band that had like a show on cartoon network puffy on me.

[00:04:51] I mean I was like That was all I was jamming and then I feel like around the time I was in, uh, I was in high school I started listening like Kid Cudi and that was [00:05:00] like 

[00:05:00] Franki: the first 

[00:05:00] Josh: black dude I ever saw that said he was depressed and wanted to like die I was like, oh, that's me too, bro. That's crazy So I started listening to Kid Cudi and then I started listening to The Strokes in high school and those are the two I feel like defining moments where I was like, I really like music and And I really want to, like, I was, I was like playing piano, like I started playing piano like 11 or 12.

[00:05:19] I was like a classical piano player, hilariously enough. And I feel like when I started listening to Kid Cudi and the Strokes was when I started being like, Oh, I think I kind of want to really start listening to music. I might want to start producing music or I might want to start like writing in some capacity.

[00:05:34] I wasn't singing it or anything. I wasn't writing lyrics or anything, but that was like my first kind of like, I don't know. I feel like that first moment where like that little, like, uh, light bulb went off. Yeah, exactly. It like went off and I was like. Oh, maybe I want to do something as it relates to this, but like, I had no, I had no idea.

[00:05:52] How did you get from that? 

[00:05:54] Franki: Right. Like, how'd you get from that point into actually doing them? 

[00:05:57] Josh: So, uh, it happened like [00:06:00] college in like a smaller town, about an hour and 15, an hour and a half from Memphis and Jackson, Tennessee. And I was like a marketing major and I didn't really know what I want to do with my life.

[00:06:09] I was like in high school, I was like playing basketball and that's really all I cared about. 

[00:06:12] Franki: You went to Jackson. You wanted to mess around basically. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 

[00:06:16] Josh: That is. Which is the home of Johnny Cash. I hear that song like every day at work, but, uh, so I was a marketing major. Didn't know what I want to do with my life.

[00:06:26] So I played piano for like a friend of mine at an open mic. And one of the music majors was like, ah, you should be a music major instead. And I was like, I'm easily influenced. I'm 18 and I was homeschooled. I want friends. I'll do whatever. So then I was like, Oh, maybe I'll like switch to being a music major and then figure out what my life is from there.

[00:06:43] So I did that. And then around the time. End of my sophomore year, we had to pick up another instrument, so I picked up a guitar and started, like, kind of, like, starting to write songs on there. And then, uh, I had a friend die, and then my grandma died, and then I went through a breakup, all kind of, like, 

[00:06:57] Franki: like, 

[00:06:57] Josh: April, May, June.[00:07:00]

[00:07:00] And at the time, I was, like, at the time, I was, like, sober, so I didn't really know what to do with any of my emotions. So that was when I was, like, oh, I guess I'm gonna start, like, Writing songs. I don't know if I'll ever, like, I don't, I don't really know what to sing. I, like, sung at one open mic night and it was like a stroke song, uh, so I was like, I think I'll just start writing about what I feel and then kind of see where it goes from there.

[00:07:20] And then, like, I spent my entire first semester of my junior year writing, like, five songs a day. Like, I would just, I would get out of class. I would grab my guitar and I would just sit out, like, in the most secluded place I could find on campus. With a notebook and I would just write I knew like four chords and like I had I just capoed everything It was before I like got like really sick of guitar So like I didn't know what I was doing and that's kind of like it kind of took that like Being down that bad to kind of like force me to be like, oh, maybe let's go back to the That Strokes Kid Cudi stuff from like high school, let's start like applying that into something bigger.

[00:07:54] Franki: Nice. Yeah. And I think there's something kind of nice about having limitations too, right? Like about [00:08:00] only knowing four chords and then having to write something that was still interesting, right? Like I know for me, I'm not a, I'm not a particularly great instrumentalist, so I tend to write simpler stuff and then let like the band fill it out and make it more interesting.

[00:08:15] But it is nice to be able to sit there in like a place by yourself and just have A guitar in hand and just like your thoughts and be able to process those things and, and use that as, you know, therapy for yourself. 

[00:08:28] Josh: Yeah, for sure. And I feel like I, I needed those limitations with the guitar because I feel like I said, I started playing like classical piano I was like 11.

[00:08:36] So like with piano at the time I was able to get all my emotions out through playing, you know what I mean? So like, I couldn't really, I wasn't going to write any lyrics or anything like that. So it took like having an instrument that I didn't know as well. Forced me to be like, alright, well, I have to put all, channel all that emotion into the words as opposed to just like playing something, you know what I mean?

[00:08:54] Totally. So it kinda like, it was the first time I actually had to like, do that, cause I took like a songwriting class, cause I had to in music [00:09:00] school, I didn't do that well, and it went terrible, so like, I feel like I needed that like, I needed that to kind of like, yeah, 

[00:09:07] Franki: the constraints, right? Yeah, I think that's super important for creative people in general is just to have some sense of like, this is because we can, we could do anything, right?

[00:09:16] If we wanted to be given that path of like, this is actually what you're capable of doing currently. That, that kind of like lets us do more creative, interesting things without getting completely lost in the weeds. Exactly. Because you 

[00:09:29] Josh: have to answer to something, you know? 

[00:09:31] Franki: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I want to jump back to the idea that you didn't grow up around much music because I know that, uh, certain things probably weren't accessible to you and we, we can get into it.

[00:09:41] Like I grew up in basically in a cult. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's, 

[00:09:47] Josh: yeah, so my dad was a pastor, well, when I grew, grew up, he was like a deacon and then he started his own church when I was like 11, but we grew up in, it was like a seven day, seven day Adventist, so like. Which is like one of like the really weird ones.[00:10:00]

[00:10:00] Uh, you know what I mean? It's kind of like, they're all pretty weird, but it's Seventh 

[00:10:03] Franki: day Adventists pretty far out there. Yeah, 

[00:10:05] Josh: pretty, pretty bigoted, pretty like closed minded and stuff like that. And I feel like, I don't know. I, I always find it funny. Cause I always say that the fun fact Prince was Seventh day Adventist.

[00:10:16] I feel like a lot of those like religious constraints kind of like. Make your imagination wonder more because you have less access to things like even with that mpv player thing Like I think like once a month They would we'd have to like give our mpv play to our parents to like make sure you weren't listening to anything That was like bad.

[00:10:31] Yeah, they kind of they eased up on that when I was like, probably like 12 or 13 really they kind of like laid off a bit and kind of chill cuz my parents are cool But like they it took a lot for them to like kind of ease up out a lot of that and help my dad leaving the old church we grew up in and kind of like Starting his own thing and becoming like a lot chiller because like now I talk to my dad about like drugs and everything.

[00:10:52] Like it's funny. Yeah. Nice. Um, but, uh, same. It's 

[00:10:54] Franki: interesting how, how similar our tracks are. And like, I remember, 'cause I was back in the day when I was [00:11:00] probably that age, it was CD players, right? I had like a Sony Walkman and I would have. The CDs that were out in my binder, because I knew at some point, inevitably my family would come and look through my shit.

[00:11:11] And then I had my CDs that were like tucked underneath shit or in the vents or wherever I could hide them. That was like the, the tough shit. It was like Dre and like, uh, corn and Eminem and just weird shit that like. They would not have been okay with hearing. So, yeah, I get that. That's, that's cool that, that you had like, Eventually, uh, sort of a, a change of scenery and the way that you're able to like communicate with your parents and that they eased up and now you're able to like, kind of have these kinds of conversations with them, right?

[00:11:43] Josh: Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm very thankful for it. I feel like it was a, a rough moment getting there. I feel like the record being called basketball camp is a good representation of that, because me and my dad, we were cool, but like, we weren't really like close until I started like playing basketball in high school, cause he always took me to practice.

[00:11:59] So we would spend [00:12:00] so much time together at the gym together and stuff like that. And that was when we kind of like, I feel like grew like a really like pretty good relationship. So yeah, I'm really thankful for it. And also it took like, uh, me, uh, tripping on acid, calling my dad like a couple of like some years ago.

[00:12:15] And I was like, yo, I'm tripping balls. Like we should talk about stuff. And then that really like, that really was like the final, like, Straw where it was like, all right, we can have this open communication and talk about things. And I can actually like, listen to your advice. I can tell you about what I'm actually going through and things and things of that sort.

[00:12:32] Um, yeah, it's amazing. 

[00:12:33] Franki: It's amazing how much that helps. I had, I had a, uh, an experience with my dad where I actually, I gave my dad mushrooms, which was shocking in the first place. He knew I didn't dose him. Don't worry. But I gave my dad mushrooms and he fought it the whole time and kind of hated the experience.

[00:12:51] But afterwards we had one of the most amazing conversations I've ever had with him and genuinely to date Probably the only time [00:13:00] I've had a conversation with him for longer than three or five minutes Where he wasn't then just distracted by something else. So it was like we were locked in for hours talking about everything So it's amazing.

[00:13:13] Hey kids do drugs And have your parents do drugs if you can. Justice. You heard it here. Um, so, okay, so, so let's hop back into the music for a second, though. What is it that, like, you started to write your own songs, you started to, in college, like, have this moment where you were becoming a lyricist for the first time?

[00:13:33] Did you start playing shows shortly after? What was kind of the track to that? I don't know. 

[00:13:37] Josh: So, I, so I started writing, like, I started writing songs. I didn't record anything. I didn't really have a plan. All I knew I was one of the classes I had to take was a recording class. Um, so at the end of the semester, I had to have like a song.

[00:13:52] I'm like, I had to mix, uh, some tracks they would give us, had to master some stuff. And then one was I had to record something completely from scratch. So I was [00:14:00] kind of like. All semester, like a lot of my, I was helping a lot of my friends do a lot of their recording and stuff like that. And everybody was starting like, probably in like Sep, like maybe like September, October, it was doing like this first week of December.

[00:14:14] And I was really dragging my feet on it. Cause I couldn't figure out what I really wanted to do. And then one of the things that really helped was in November, Kid Cudi dropped that grunge album, Speeding Bullet to Heaven, which I have, I have two Kid Cudi tattoos. I have Speeding Bullet to Heaven, like the, a stick and poke here.

[00:14:28] And then I have this giant. Um, but so he dropped that record and he played guitar and bass on it. And it was all like grungy and he was screaming and it was all the things. And I, that was the first time I like seeing him make that transition. I was like, if he can do it, like I can do it. This is like a blueprint for me.

[00:14:43] So I had a, had this like really crappy red, uh, Squire strat and I was in my dorm room and I was like, all right, I'm going to sit here and I'm going to record a song I wrote. And I've never really done that. So I did a lot of instrumentals and like produce a bunch of stuff like that, but like, I'd [00:15:00] never done a song I wrote in terms of like lyrics and stuff like that.

[00:15:02] So I plugged directly into my interface, the guitar, and I just dropped it in reverb and I was like, All right, I'm going to make a song. And I made this weird, like intro song. And turns out that snowballed into like the first time ever recorded an EP. And under the name Black Hippie, and it's nowhere. It's like buried somewhere on Bandcamp.

[00:15:21] No one ever heard of it other than like, like six of my friends at the time, but that was like the first time I actually Yo, send me a 

[00:15:26] Franki: link. 

[00:15:27] Josh: I, I will. It's weird. It's bad. It's not good, but No, it's really great 

[00:15:31] Franki: though. 

[00:15:32] Josh: I'll send it after we do this, for sure. Cause it's, it's funny. So I I ended up, um, I started doing that and then that kind of snowballed into me being like, alright, I think I want to do this, like, as my thing, I want to be an artist.

[00:15:47] Instead of just like, because I was like, maybe I'll try to get in the business side of it once I graduate or maybe I'll try to be a session musician. But that was like, that moment into my first semester, I was like, Oh, no, this is what I'm going to do for like the rest of my life. So then, [00:16:00] I 

[00:16:01] Franki: What was the feeling going into that?

[00:16:02] Was it like, I've got something to say, and so I'm gonna do this, or was it just like 

[00:16:07] Josh: It was, it was more like, I don't want anyone else singing what I'm saying, other than me, because no one's, cause no one's gonna do it for me. With the same amount of emotion and care for the words as I am. So I'm the only, if I'm going to write, I'm the only one that can sing it.

[00:16:25] So that was kind of like, it was kind of like an ultimatum to myself of like, this is what I have to do. Um, and then I changed my name to St. John for a little, for like a year or so, and started working on another EP with one of my friends who's currently in the band now, uh, my friend Joe. And then I didn't really start playing shows till my senior year of college, like a whole year removed from that.

[00:16:46] And, um, some, uh, one of the music majors putting on like, uh, a couple of times a month show in our student union of some of the majors. And he heard from this one girl I was cool with. that I sang and wrote music. Cause [00:17:00] I didn't tell anybody I was doing this. If you weren't like an immediate friend of mine, you didn't know I was writing.

[00:17:05] Franki: Yeah. 

[00:17:05] Josh: You know what I mean? You know, I played guitar, you know, I played piano and I played ensemble concerts at school, but like, no one knew I was writing my own music. I didn't really tell a lot of people unless we were like dating or like friends, like really close friends. Cause I was like, really, I kept everything really close to the chest.

[00:17:18] So he was like, Josh, you should do this. And I was terrified. I was like, I don't know if I want to do this. And my parents came down and everything. Cause they wanted to see like, Oh, we've never seen Josh, like sing, And like play his own music. And I did it and people liked it. And everyone was like, Oh dude, that was amazing.

[00:17:31] And I was like, Oh, I can do this. And then I started like playing open mics and stuff like that. And that's what kind of like that one moment, my first semester, my senior year was what got me to actually start playing out instead of just like staying in my room and keeping it to myself 

[00:17:46] Franki: instead of just playing in.

[00:17:47] Yeah, that's crazy. That's so cool. What is, what is the aspect for you that like, I mean, I know that had to be nerve wracking. Is there still an aspect of music that really makes your heart race? 

[00:17:57] Josh: Um, I don't [00:18:00] really know anymore. I feel like for a while. I was very nervous like on stage I feel like now I still get jitters But like I feel like i've done it so much at this point that just kind of just feels like what I do Yeah, there's like some days like going into 

[00:18:15] Franki: work, 

[00:18:16] Josh: right?

[00:18:16] Exactly, literally exactly and like we played some like we've been on some insane tours like opening for bigger bands We played in front of like hundreds of people and like these like big like shows and I feel like doing that so much I like I feel like there's not a lot of aspect that really like makes me scared other than like Not, I don't put this like not my only that scares me now artistically is like not living up to like my potential.

[00:18:42] You know what I mean? Totally. Totally. It's an existential fear. It's not the heart racing 

[00:18:46] Franki: thing. It's the mind racing thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. I think we all get that at some point where we're like, damn, that was a really good record. I just put out, am I ever going to be able to put out a good song?

[00:18:57] Like all those weird thoughts, just [00:19:00] keep going. What do you love most about music right now? 

[00:19:04] Josh: I like the, I like the writing and like the holding up my room demoing. That's like my, I think that'll always be my favorite aspect of it. Like the, the creating process, like playing shows is cool. Like interacting with people on the road is fun.

[00:19:19] But like, I think I'll always, my favorite thing will always be just like, being in my room. Recording and I recorded like I recorded a whole new record. Like that was amazing. That was like my favorite thing I just like sat down with like a bunch of joints and like coffee and I just like Got to like tell people what to play and like work on stuff and work on these parts Like that's my favorite part will always be just creating.

[00:19:40] Franki: That's cool. What do you hate most about music?

[00:19:46] Josh: I feel like being like A black dude making alternative music from the south is what I hate about it. You know what I mean? It's like there's no connections. There's no infrastructure, you know, I don't I didn't go to a [00:20:00] cool school where like Everybody is playing like was playing south by or something, you know, like I don't I didn't go to like schools for everybody You know, I didn't go to berkeley I didn't go to like a cool liberal arts school where like everybody's in like big bands like in like two years after they graduate so it's like I feel like the grind in that aspect where it's like kind of like You a little unfair and a little like clicky that's the thing i hate about it because i feel like it should always just come down to like the art but like that's never art you know it's always like you know it's always the art 

[00:20:30] Franki: and where it is at the time and who saw it and yeah new and yeah it's a lot of things 

[00:20:36] Josh: Yeah, that's what I hate.

[00:20:37] Like that's the only thing I really hate about everything else is like great Like this all the other sucky parts. I love like i'm like i'm dog tired right now. I am dying But like I love this stuff though. Like i'm like i'm gonna play a show in like Four hours, and it's gonna be dope, and I'm gonna drink a few beers, and I'm gonna go to bed at like 1am, and then get up tomorrow and do it again.

[00:20:57] That sucks, but also it is like the greatest thing to ever [00:21:00] do, you know what I mean? So it's like, that's the only part I hate. 

[00:21:03] Franki: Yeah, I think you do have to fall in love with the parts that are a little unsavory to really like wanna do it, and I think it's easy to do that, right? And it can be glamorized on one end, which it's not glamorous, but it can also be like demonized on the other end.

[00:21:16] You're like, Oh, I got to log my equipment and do the thing. It's like, dude, we're making fucking music and we're making people slam their bodies into each other while they're getting drunk with their friends. Like how many people get to say that? It's pretty amazing. What is it that you want? Like, speaking of what is it that you want an audience to feel or what is it that you're trying to convey with your music?

[00:21:36] Josh: I, I just want people to feel like. What they're what they feel and what they're going to is valid 

[00:21:43] Franki: I think that's 

[00:21:43] Josh: what i'm on my music to do because I feel like not all my lyrics are going to apply to every single Person, but I want the general tone and feel of it to just be that comforting hand on your shoulder That's like hey, I may not have experienced exactly what you're experiencing, but I understand it.

[00:21:56] I experienced similar things and You're [00:22:00] not alone. And even if it feels like you're alone, there's always going to be at least one person who you might not even personally know that it's going through the same thing and can like feel for that. You know what I mean? So that's, that's what I want. I just want people to like feel okay and valid.

[00:22:12] Franki: Cool. I love that. And I think like that's a perfect segue into this song that I want to talk about with you, which is chairman drive. Like when I heard this song, it was definitely a song because you and I have in some ways, very similar backgrounds and upbringings. And, uh, I think that it made me feel like there was that hand on my shoulder.

[00:22:32] It's, it's a song that's like, it's about a lot of things, but it's also about your experience growing up and like reconciling what it means to have a kind of. Disjointed relationship with your family and what it means to like be a parent at this point, it's this kind of like the song itself is a little yearning and, and cinematic and has this kind of like, for me, it felt like a plea for a new nostalgia, like wanting to rewrite some [00:23:00] kind of history, like a, like a sort of prayer to a childhood that's been robbed or I don't know, but it's like deeply personal, it's poetic at moments.

[00:23:09] It's kind of devastating and it's got fucking horns. Like it has great horns in it, which to me, I was just like, it felt so big and so like, it felt like a giant hug from between two sad people. It was great. Yeah. What was the process of that? So, I mean, you said you hole up in your room and you, you demo things, but what did this, how did this song come to be?

[00:23:31] What birth did, et cetera. 

[00:23:33] Josh: So. Um, this song was like, came from like two chord shapes. Like my drummer showed me, there were these like, it's like a G shape and a C shape, but they're like, it's like, it's like slightly different or whatever. And he was like, Oh, dude, look at these shapes. And I was like, Oh, those are cool.

[00:23:47] I'll like, I'll think about that later. So then I came up with a little dude, it's a little tapping part. And I started to kind of messing with it. And I was like, I, I want to write like this album needs like a slow song. I feel like, you know, [00:24:00] everything's pretty much like punching in your face the whole time.

[00:24:01] And I was like, I want to kind of slow things down. And like make people really feel, you know what I mean? So I, I was like, I want to talk about, cause the whole record's about like being okay with how you turned out. And despite how like a lot of going through a lot of bad things I was like I can't really talk about who I am As a person without talking about growing up in like a very weird religious kind of like environment so the song's called chairman drive because that's the That was the street that uh, the church I grew up at was on Um, which is funny because I get my hair cut like like a 40 second like drive from that The old church, which is just fine but I I wanted to like write about that and talk about it because I feel like The only way to truly understand me and for me to understand myself, I kind of have to reconcile with a lot of those things and kind of be okay that like a lot of that stuff happened.

[00:24:51] Franki: Yeah, 

[00:24:52] Josh: it's one of the things that like I feel like if had I grown up not in that I would have felt like I could relate to more people so I feel like I [00:25:00] had to kind of confront those demons kind of head 

[00:25:01] Franki: on Mmm, 

[00:25:02] Josh: and my one of my favorite things about that song is the one line if I become your enemy No, I am your enemy because all I've ever known is the truth There was a giant banner at the church that says if I do I become your enemy because I tell you the truth There's some like scripture in Galatians.

[00:25:18] Yeah, the most like Condescending the most like gaslighting thing. It's like, Oh, you know what I'm saying? It's because the truth and you're ignorant 

[00:25:26] Franki: and 

[00:25:27] Josh: that this perfectly sums up that what it was to be in that environment. You're just surrounded by people on these high horses that think like that. And so like 

[00:25:36] Franki: one another too, right?

[00:25:37] Like exactly the ability for it to become this echo chamber and you're a kid and you're already an outsider and you're in this place. And like, people are just echoing back this, like, no, you're wrong because we know the truth and it's, it's a total mind fuck. 

[00:25:51] Josh: And they, and they always like, they kind of created this environment where everybody that came out of that, that didn't stay in that, um, are so like paranoid, [00:26:00] untrusting and just feel so alone because what they do is like.

[00:26:04] They make you feel like no one outside of there is going to love you like we do. And that's kind of what the song is. I feel like it's what cult is, baby. It is. Yeah. And it's something I still like, I'm 29. I still grapple with that stuff. I haven't been at that. I haven't been in that building since I was 11.

[00:26:22] Franki: Yeah. But that building is still in you, isn't it? 

[00:26:25] Josh: Yeah, it is. And I kind of wanted to really delve into that. And it was like a very hard song to write. Like, I feel like I, it was one of those songs, I think I've only written like maybe a few black hippie songs where like, I like, was like gutted and like needed to be like held after and this was like, it was, this was one of them where it was like, I wanted to be so extremely honest.

[00:26:48] I'm not hiding behind no metaphors, I'm not like coming up with any kind of clever quips. I'm like, I, what I'm feeling is what I'm feeling and I'm going to say that as direct as humanly possible. Cool. 

[00:26:58] Franki: Yeah. Now somebody please [00:27:00] come hug me and stop the bleeding. Yeah. Damn. Well, it's an amazing song. I'm going to put it on a, I've got a playlist music.

[00:27:08] gay on Spotify. And I also think everyone should go to your site and, and see all the other songs that are around it. Cause it's, it's an amazing album. Um, but yeah, the, as far as the actual like, um, Recording and demoing, I guess the recording part of it, like, where did you go from here? How did you get from this thing that you wrote?

[00:27:28] And kind of isolation a little bit to this fully produced thing with beautiful horns on it and all. 

[00:27:35] Josh: So, um, I had my drummer kind of like medium, kind of jammed a little bit. And I recorded his drums over it. And then I was like, all right, let's figure out what we're going to do. Cause all I had was just the strumming of the chords and the drums.

[00:27:48] And I was gonna, I wanted to beef it up a little bit before I sent it to my bass player to write something. So I was like, all right, like I love, have, I love synth. I was like, let me throw some synth on here. And that's when I came with, uh, Like a really [00:28:00] distorted synth. Cause that, like the synth on there is from the demo.

[00:28:02] Like I'd never even rechecked it. Like it was just like really distorted and kind of uncomfortable. And I kind of wanted to kind of resemble like, you know, church organs, but like 

[00:28:10] Franki: more, 

[00:28:11] Josh: more like abrasive, you know what I mean? To kind of really like that kind of mindset. And then once I added that. I was like, I know I want that third verse to like punch, but I don't know what I want to do.

[00:28:22] And then as I was like fooling around with that, I was like, oh, what if I put horns on this song? So then I took my synth and like ran it through like some pedals to like make it sound like less crappy uh, and then I wrote the And I was like, oh, let me write a harmony on like a another horn part to harmonize with that and then I need to Get actual horn players to play and I think that's gonna make it kind of like cinematic and kind of make it more of like You A movie as opposed to like a total stroke 

[00:28:50] Franki: of genius Like that it sounds so good 

[00:28:54] Josh: it's because like as I said like earlier, like I didn't grow up in a musical household, but like my My dad and my [00:29:00] brother are like graphic designers.

[00:29:01] And my brother was a film major and a lot of like in our family, at least on the Shaw side, my granddad worked for like Stax. He produced like the Watts Stax, like documentary or whatever. So like in my family, it's just like film and like visuals and art and stuff like that, but no music. So I only really.

[00:29:16] When I was growing up, the only way I ever conceptualized art was through like visual mediums. Like none of it was like sound based at all. So every time I approach songs, even to this day, I always think about it from like a cinematic standpoint and like, imagine it and like, try to create the scene through just like the sonics of the song.

[00:29:32] So I really wanted to like, really bring that to the forefront of this song because it is like, I feel like my life story is in that song. So I was like, let's make it more cinematic. And then adding those horns just made it like, Hit that much more like to be more of like a soundtrack instead of just like a rock song traditionally and stuff like 

[00:29:47] Franki: that Cool.

[00:29:49] Well, it's a great song. I think it's, I think it's so cool. And I'm excited for people to listen to it. Um, I want to move into, this is the, so we did the music part and then this is music dot gay. So we're going to call this the dot [00:30:00] part. And usually we just riff here, but there's a couple of things that you'd mentioned that I just want to briefly get into.

[00:30:05] Uh, and it's something I want to call, uh, like home core, which is gardening, fermentation, Making your own fresh pastas, baking bread, whatever it does. I think it's things that like a lot of people started in the pandemic, but it sounds like you're still carrying that torch. What, what prompted this for you?

[00:30:23] Why all of these beautiful things? 

[00:30:25] Josh: So I, I had, I just had a weird upbringing. So my mom really wanted to make sure me and my brother knew how to cook. Yeah, we're from the South. So in my mom's mind, she just like, was terrified that like, we were going to marry the wrong person just because they cooked for us kind of situation.

[00:30:41] So she was like, you were going to learn how to cook. So I started cooking when I was like, probably eight or nine. I started, it was when I started cooking. So I always just had like a love of cooking. And then like when I got older, I don't have hobbies. Like me and my dad are too intensive people to have hobbies.

[00:30:55] So my dad's always like, you need to find a hobby before you get my age. So I was like, all right, let's do it. Go [00:31:00] back into like cooking and then gardening is more of like I think I did my whole life We had a garden which is funny like in this like not great neighborhood in memphis We just have this giant garden in the backyard.

[00:31:10] Yeah, so like I'd always I garden a lot also So it was like those two things. I was like, oh like I need hobbies Let's just do the two things i've been doing for like since I was a kid That I i've always loved doing so that's kind of like what got me into it and like, uh My girlfriend is like a very intense person also.

[00:31:25] So she's just like You Love that kind of stuff. She's like cooking, let's sit here and let's find the most five hour long intensive New York times recipe. And we're just going to do, we're just going to do it. So I feel like 

[00:31:39] Franki: journey together. 

[00:31:40] Josh: Exactly. So I feel like it was, I kind of also want to kind of find something that like I could do when I'm home.

[00:31:47] Cause like, as you know, like being on the road, when you go home, there's nothing but extra crisis for a while. You know what I mean? You're like, Oh my God, like, why am I not on the 

[00:31:55] Franki: road? Why don't I have a show today? Am I supposed to be doing 

[00:31:57] Josh: something? So I kind of wanted to like [00:32:00] create an environment where I have things to look forward to when I go home.

[00:32:02] And so now I have like, Oh, I have the garden to take care of, or I have like cooking or things like that. Or like for a while we were making kombucha for a while. We made a, we made like a little ginger bug to make like probiotic sodas, like just anything that just like, It's silly and stupid, but like, and fun.

[00:32:18] It's fun. You know, exactly. You can tend 

[00:32:20] Franki: to, yeah. Yeah, you'd also mentioned trivia. Uh, I'm, oh yeah, I have a soft spot in my heart. I'm a trivia master at a local tea temple. Shout out to Wu Wei Tea Temple. I had a breakthrough the other day. I took six grams of psilocybin mushrooms. And I realized that one of the reasons that like, I'm personally in love with trivia is because facts were something that I could hold onto when I was in an environment that was extremely gaslighting and unshake, like kind of shaky and everything, but facts were like unchanging and there was, they were provable and it felt like a safe space for me to like be able to memorize facts.

[00:32:55] Um, I'm wondering if that tracks for you at all, or if you have another. It's, 

[00:32:59] Josh: [00:33:00] it's, it's, it's kind of similar. So I love trivia. And I'm really good at trivia, according to like, my friend, because when you grow up an outsider, when you hang around other people you don't really know, um, you have to be able to like, figure out what people are talking about and what they're referencing, even if you don't know the pop culture.

[00:33:17] So, I, like, I don't always know the answer to the question, it's just like, I have trained my brain for years of being an outsider of being like, okay I heard two I heard this question or I heard like whatever conversation they're having I think I saw a tweet that slightly alluded to this So that should be enough for you to construct this whole narrative and completely understanding what they're talking about Without actually knowing what they're talking about So it's like I know like so much pop culture stuff that i've never watched never seen Have no reference to it other than just like knowing enough about it because I hear people talk about it And that's my way into the conversation when I was younger You You know, it's like, I was the weird homeschool religious kid.

[00:33:52] I don't know anything, but like, I had to figure it out and pretend to, in order to like, have friends and stuff like that. 

[00:33:58] Franki: Yeah. It's like this [00:34:00] sort of like chameleon esque thing that develops in the neurodivergent brain where it goes, I see people, they're connecting. They're connecting around this particular thing.

[00:34:10] I don't really know this thing, but I know some things about this thing. Therefore, I will connect with these people. Exactly. Yeah, no, that's great. Cool. All right. So let's move. You said you said you're currently, are you living with your girlfriend? 

[00:34:24] Josh: Yeah. So it's me, my girlfriend, my drummer and his girlfriend.

[00:34:28] And. Yeah, it's like four of us in this, like, house near, uh, near the universe. We, like, live, uh, next to a bunch of frat houses, uh, right near the university, because, uh, they'll, they'll never noise complain to you, so you can record, you can record, no one's gonna noise complain to you, but every Saturday night, you do hear, like, Mm tuh, mm tuh, mm tuh, all the, all the fucking time.

[00:34:48] Franki: Just like, yeah. You're, you're non binary, you're bisexual, you're a black person, you're making indie music in the South, Um, I think it's safe to say that you don't really fit the heteronormative, white, colonial, patriarchy type [00:35:00] script very well. How has this informed, you know, kind of how you find your others?

[00:35:07] And how has it informed the stuff that you're creating just in general, whether it's music or otherwise? 

[00:35:12] Josh: Well, I feel like, if you're a member of like any kind of marginalized group, you have this deep understanding of how unfair the world is. You know, I feel I feel like there's some people that have to like that exist in the exact box They're supposed to exist in that They have to read all these articles and find ways to be able to empathize with like all the other people that are suffering 

[00:35:32] Franki: yeah, 

[00:35:33] Josh: and I feel like I It sucks sometimes because like I have like so many issues and like don't fit any of the norms But i'm thankful for because it's the only way I think Based on like how I grew up and stuff like that, I would be able to completely understand other people that are in these marginalized groups.

[00:35:50] You know, because I grew up in an environment that was very like, like, uh, misogynistic, like homophobic, like really bad. And I feel like, I'm very glad that I turned out like this because had I not had [00:36:00] all these things that kept me from fitting in that box, I don't think I would have been, I would have grew up in an environment that would have made me conducive enough to like understand.

[00:36:07] Franki: Yeah. Suffering. Totally. And I think there's two paths in that, right? Like, some people take the path of kind of like being the next iteration of that thing. So misogyny, heteronormativity, any of those things that are like just out there and ugly and, and not kind and not good. They then grab that and they go, Oh, and they, they internalize it, they twist it, and then they become the next iteration of that thing.

[00:36:33] And the other path you could take, and of course, there's a million shades in between, but the other path you can take is to use that to empathize and be like, Wow. Something really hurt these people, they feel this way, that's fucked up, I don't want to feel that way, I need to find a different way to be, and so you kind of like turn around and you do the exact opposite of that, which is to use that pain that you've experienced in order to empathize with other people and accept and allow and [00:37:00] permit all of those other people to be even more themselves around you rather than tell them who they shouldn't be.

[00:37:05] Josh: Exactly. And I feel like it took years for me to kind of like, understand who I am and come to terms with things. You know what I mean? Cause I feel like I've lived a very long life of like burying things and not actually confronting them to figure out like who I was as a person, you know what I mean?

[00:37:26] And I feel like it took like becoming a dad for me to be like, Oh, I need to figure out every part of myself because I have a child that I have to like teach things and help understand things and like be around and like help raise and I feel like that kind of like forced me to be like, okay, like I need to stop kidding myself and saying that I'm straight.

[00:37:46] Cause like, I've never, never fit into that box my entire life to the point where when I came out to my, my mom, she was like, yeah, I kind of like figured I was like, yeah, duh, nigga. Like. Obviously, like, I, and the same with like, uh, [00:38:00] like being non binary, it was like the only way I could feel comfortable with myself.

[00:38:03] Yeah. This happened, like, this actually happened, like, I feel like I came to terms with all this stuff. On our first major tour. It was like, Oh, wow. Cool. And because you were So 

[00:38:12] Franki: much or what? 

[00:38:13] Josh: It was more like I was completely out of everything that I knew was my element So I had to sit there and be like, okay, who am I?

[00:38:22] and through that I was like I need to be honest with myself and stop avoiding all these questions because I still have that Part of that chairman drive stuff still ingrained in me Even the fact i'm extremely i've always been a progressive person and things like that They were still part of me where I was like I'm okay with everybody else's stuff, but I'm not ready to confront my own.

[00:38:40] And it took me away from home for six weeks to be like, Oh, like I have never fit this box. And the second I like accepted that I was substantially happier. Like I'm still a depressed person, but like that has stuff to do with just like my brain as opposed to like. Me trying to force myself to live a version of a [00:39:00] life that I was told to live when I was a child To the point where like my parents don't even still want me to live that life.

[00:39:04] You know what I mean? It's like the only person that was forcing me to do that Was myself and my unwillingness to accept myself for who I truly was 

[00:39:12] Franki: yo That's sick. I'm so glad that you were able to have that kind of recognition and like to find who it is that you needed to step into being, do you feel like there's ever moments where you're still sort of like juggling your identities or like code switching or yeah, 

[00:39:29] Josh: for sure.

[00:39:29] I feel like, um, I, I do that like as an artist and as a person too, it's like, you know, you never, You never have it all figured out like no, I think that's like the human experience is trying to figure it out until you die And I feel like i'm still struggling with things. I feel like grappling things I'm, still like I still code switch too with that kind of stuff Like yeah, I feel like as a black person like code switching is like innate in you 

[00:39:53] Franki: Yeah, 

[00:39:53] Josh: and then as like any kind of queer identifying person in the south that's also deeply ingrained in you because it's like It's safety.

[00:39:59] You [00:40:00] know, you try not to like get hurt out here, you know, sometimes like, Oh, like we're playing in Texas. Maybe I won't wear a crop top today. Oh, we're going here. Like I have to do a, I have to go to a church thing for my parents. Let me not paint my nails or maybe let's like take one of my earrings out.

[00:40:15] You know, like things like that. I still, I still do that sadly. And how does it feel when 

[00:40:20] Franki: you do that? 

[00:40:21] Josh: I feel like kind of crappy, but like, you know, it's like, it's just one of those things. It's like, it's a process, you know what I mean? You gotta, you gotta keep pushing. You have to keep fighting for yourself, you know, 

[00:40:31] Franki: and I feel 

[00:40:32] Josh: like when I like I turned 29 last month And I feel like that has been like an extra little boost of me being like, this is just who I am, you know Yeah, like who cares man?

[00:40:41] Like you don't want me to wear 

[00:40:43] Franki: fuck all y'all. I won't come to church. It's cool 

[00:40:46] Josh: I don't care. 

[00:40:47] Franki: Yeah, no, I get that. What do you think is, is the parts of you that you're most vocal about when it comes to queerness, when it comes to identity and, and, you know, being non binary, are there, do you think it's [00:41:00] important for you to be really open about that stuff or it's just, I think it is.

[00:41:04] Josh: I feel like people in, in general, like I feel like. A lot of like homophobia is like ingrained in us due to like, you know, a lot of there's a lot of like serious reasons Why like a lot of systemic reasons why a lot of leftover stuff from slavery and things like that Like there's a lot of like reasons why like it's not just like a oh, I hate gay people kind of thing It's like there's systemic reasons why we've ended up the way we are 

[00:41:28] Franki: Yeah, 

[00:41:28] Josh: but I feel like it is up to people that have any kind of platform even if it's small Or large as a black person.

[00:41:34] And if you are any kind of queer identifying person, you have to be vocal in some capacity because there's so many closeted kids that need that beacon, same like Kid Cudi for me was like the first person to show me how to depression. So it's like, I need to be that for like all these little kids that like, maybe don't know, at least like high schoolers that like, don't know their identity.

[00:41:55] Don't know how they feel about themselves. Don't know what, how they feel about their own like gender identity or their [00:42:00] sexuality. It's like, they don't understand that yet. So you have to, if you have any kind of platform, you have to be something. Even if it's just you being honest with like, I will have it all figured out.

[00:42:08] I'm super t like I do, I always say I don't. But the fact I'm questioning these things within myself, it's Giving people an example to be like, you can also question this within yourself. It's okay to do that. Look at me. I'm someone you look up to in some capacity because you like my music. Like I'm showing you, it is okay to question these things, whether your parents don't agree, your environment, any of it, like your teachers, anybody.

[00:42:29] If they don't agree, I'm the person that agrees. I think it's okay that you feel like this. So I have to be vocal in any kind of capacity because like, you know, it's given, it's paying things forward. 

[00:42:39] Franki: And for some people, it even just shows that these are questionable things, right? Like some people might grow up and just feel off and they don't understand why they feel off.

[00:42:48] And like, it may be your music. That's the first thing that. they hear that has anything to do with queer culture. And then they hear an interview or they hear something with you and they're like, Oh shit, is that what I'm feeling? Right? Like [00:43:00] it even just brings into mind the possibilities that things are different and they're changing.

[00:43:05] And like what you grew up hearing in your homeschool and the South and the seventh, seventh day Adventists, like whatever your particular little, Niche of like, uh, fucked up, uh, brainwashing is, which we've all got it one way or another, whatever that particular thing is like, that's not the whole world.

[00:43:25] That's one little small, very narrow minded vision of the world. And there's like such a bigger world out there to be experienced. And for us to like, Have fun questioning. It's a sandbox. It's a playground. Like we're all trying to figure it out. And if we can be kind while we're doing it, then bully for you.

[00:43:44] We're actually going to have a good time. This world might stand a chance, but yep. Sorry. Hi, I'm back. We could step down off our soapboxes now, but it's 100 percent true. I think it's, I think it's totally great. Um, is there, [00:44:00] is there a specific vision of the future that you have for like, for queer kids, for queer people, for, you know, Black people like, 

[00:44:08] Josh: I, I feel like I just want like people to feel like they could be comfortable in their own skin and to realize the reason you feel uncomfortable is because you're blocking parts of yourself.

[00:44:21] To conform to something that was never you in the first place. 

[00:44:24] Franki: Yeah. 

[00:44:24] Josh: So all I want is people just like be themselves, live their lives 

[00:44:28] Franki: and 

[00:44:29] Josh: try to create an environment where they can work those things out for themselves. Cause like no one, I feel like some people aren't allowed to like figure this kind of stuff out because it's so tough to talk about.

[00:44:38] It's so weird to talk about, but it was like, everybody deserves that moment in their life to question these things within themselves and figure things out. So I just want to like. Anything I do the rest of my life, if I could just do that for one person, just give them the opportunity to quit, to like figure things out for themselves.

[00:44:55] And like, I think I did my job. That's all I want to do. 

[00:44:57] Franki: That's so cool. Yeah. To be, [00:45:00] to be kid cuddy for someone. Right. Exactly. Cause I mean, 

[00:45:03] Josh: he was, he was after me. It's my job to like be that for 

[00:45:06] Franki: someone else. Yeah. It's just a cycle. Yep. Totally. And it's, there's the, there's the bad cycles. There's the dad who beats his kid and that kid beats their kid, et cetera.

[00:45:15] And then there's a good cycles where someone encourages someone and they lift someone else up and it's like, that's, that's what the world is. That's what the universe is. Right. It's this yin and this yang and these things are, you see one in the other and like it's this constantly evolving thing. But I think the more that we can evolve towards.

[00:45:32] Lifting one another up the better things are and not everyone, not everyone's going to have that opportunity, right? Like we want everyone to be able to step into who they are, but for some people that means death, you know, 

[00:45:44] Josh: exactly. It's 

[00:45:44] Franki: crazy. This world's crazy, man. Yeah, it's, 

[00:45:48] Josh: it's, yeah. 

[00:45:49] Franki: Damn. Um, okay, so let's jump into, let's talk about, now that we're kind of envisioning the world a little bit, let's talk about dreams, right?

[00:45:56] What is, what's a, what's your biggest dream that you have for [00:46:00] your life, personally? 

[00:46:01] Josh: I, I just want to make, Art, impactful art at a high level. Mm-Hmm. that has some kind of cultural significance. 

[00:46:11] Franki: Say more. What do you mean? High level? 

[00:46:13] Josh: So I feel like I, I'm trying to find a way to say this without being like, like cocky of shit.

[00:46:21] Do it. Um, I'm good at what I do. I wanna be in these conversations. I wanna be like, nominated for Grammy, all that kind of stuff. Mm-Hmm. . I just wanna make, like, I wanna be like the next Donald Glover, the next Tyler creator. I want be like at this level of creating things that. Shape culture that shape like how people view things and things like that because like I want to make something has an impact You know what?

[00:46:42] I mean? I feel like this world as you're saying this world sucks. Everything kind of sucks right now and I feel like I It's my job. It's like my calling to literally create art to make it a little less sucky Or to help things get better in any kind of capacity. So I just want to like make art that [00:47:00] matters you know what I mean at a high level not just like matters at like a local level or matters and like You A niche group.

[00:47:06] I want things to matter in large, in a big sense so I can have a bigger impact because I feel like No one is looking out for so many marginalized people. And so many people say they're like, they care about it, but then they get a little bit of money and a little bit of capitalism and then they just lose themselves in it.

[00:47:22] And I know that's never going to be me. I'm always going to be myself and true to what I do. So it's like, it's my job knowing that and I'm good at what I do. I need to be in that upper echelon to do what these people have not and do what people constantly fail to do. 

[00:47:35] Franki: Yeah, cool. That's, that is a big dream.

[00:47:38] Josh: Yeah, yeah, it's definitely not easy. Go for it. It's achievable. I definitely didn't pick anything like it. Like some people are just like, I just want to be a manager. I want a car. Exactly. You know, you know, got my 2. 5 kids in the suburbs. Like I wish I could be that. Like if that could be me, I, you know, it's just never going to be me.

[00:47:56] Never was. And you know, everybody's got their [00:48:00] thing, you know, I feel 

[00:48:00] Franki: like that's, that's been across the board with all the musicians I've talked to. They've all had this sense of like, if I could do something else, I would, you know, like, it's like music, music chooses us. Right. Right. Like. Yeah. What are you gonna do?

[00:48:13] Um, okay, so what's a dream that you've already achieved? Small dream, big dream? 

[00:48:18] Josh: Um, touring, honestly. I, I never, like, I toured Europe last year. I never thought that would happen. I always wanted that to happen, but, like, I feel like I was one of those people that, like, I didn't plan on living this long. Like, I was just like, no, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, I wasn't, I wasn't planning on living past 25.

[00:48:34] So the fact I did that was already pretty crazy. Uh, and then I was like, if I do, I won't live, I won't make it to 30, but I'm a year from 30 and I'm definitely going to make it, you know, I'm going to quote the old Southern people, Lord willing, I'm going to make it to 30. So, but I feel like touring is like a dream that like, I never thought I would get like people knowing who I was.

[00:48:52] I signed autographs in Europe. That's crazy. I never thought that would ever be like a thing that would ever happen to me. I never thought anyone would care about [00:49:00] what I do. So I feel like that level of dream of being able to tour and people care, I never thought would happen. And it's like, It's one of those things that like, I never like, I don't think I'll ever like.

[00:49:13] I don't know, I'd be processing, you know, or like sit down and be like, Whoa, I'm actually doing that one thing I actually always wanted to do. Yeah. 

[00:49:21] Franki: Yeah. Well, cool. Is there anything that you would tell little you about like what it, what it feels like or what it means to be a musician? 

[00:49:31] Josh: That's a good question.

[00:49:32] Honestly. Um, honestly, I don't, I would tell my younger self, honestly, about anything I'm doing, I would just be like, Hey. Don't let anybody don't listen to anybody. Don't let anyone tell you this is stupid Don't want anyone to tell you to write songs like this or do this Do whatever you want to do because you are going to be right a lot For a while where everyone said you weren't going to [00:50:00] be right.

[00:50:00] Franki: Yeah, 

[00:50:00] Josh: and that's like the weirdest thing I think that like I've experienced like when I was like a lot younger even younger as a musician and younger as a kid like Sometimes you're right. Even when the person that seems like they're supposed to be right, whatever the adult figure, whatever the mentor figure, they think they're right.

[00:50:17] But old people don't always know what is best, in terms of like the now. Not saying that like a disrespectful way, I respect my elders. I love my, you know what I mean, but like You're from 

[00:50:26] Franki: the South, I get it. 

[00:50:27] Josh: Yeah, exactly. But like, I think I would tell my younger self that, it's like, Don't listen to any nigger.

[00:50:31] Like, you know what you're doing, trust it, and just keep doing whatever the fuck you want to do. 

[00:50:36] Franki: Yeah, well, cuz nobody's gonna know you better than you know you. 

[00:50:40] Josh: Exactly. Right? Ever. Yeah. 

[00:50:43] Franki: Same thing, what would you, is there something you'd tell little you about 

[00:50:47] Josh: being queer? I, all I would tell myself would be like, nothing

[00:50:56] you're doing is wrong. I feel like I was one of those kids that like, you [00:51:00] know, they call you gay for everything, you know what I mean? Like, I was wondering. I, I would smell my hands a lot when I was a kid. Uhhuh, like, I liked the smell of soap, so I would just like smell my hands. Uhhuh and I got called like the LER a lot for that.

[00:51:11] Franki: Yeah. 

[00:51:11] Josh: And like, like there were a lot of things, moments like that throughout my, like young childhood of things like that where it's like you were constantly being called like gay in a derogatory, it's always like, its weirdest 

[00:51:20] Franki: shit too. Right? It's, it's, it's never anything like, it's like you're like stand, you're like standing and you're like leaning a little bit too much on one hip and they're like, got that faggot and you're like.

[00:51:29] Cause I'm standing? Like, what? 

[00:51:31] Josh: Yeah, it's literally like, that, I'm like, hey, like, It's fine, like, first off, you're gonna be hot in your twenties, like, Everyone's like, like, a lot of people are gonna wanna fuck you, like, guy, girl, like, a lot of people are gonna wanna fuck you, like, do whatever you wanna do.

[00:51:49] Yeah, exactly, like, chill, bro, like, you know what I mean? Cause I feel like, I wish someone would've told me that, like, when I was, like, younger, like, hey bro, like, That's, they shouldn't be saying that to you. 

[00:51:58] Franki: Don't 

[00:51:59] Josh: internalize [00:52:00] that. Be okay with all your weird mannerisms. That's fine. You can put your hands on your hips if you stand if that's a way that you want to stand.

[00:52:08] You can smell your hands. Soap smells amazing. You know what I mean? You can 

[00:52:11] Franki: smell your hands. If you learn anything today, you can sniff your hands whenever you want. Embrace your inner fag, sniff your hands.

[00:52:22] Josh: Like, like we'll be on tour and like when someone's house and like a girlfriend would be like, he's like, Oh man, you smell that soap. It's so good. And I'm like, looks around, like smells hands. That stuff does smell good. And just keep it pushing. 

[00:52:38] Franki: Awesome. Okay. I want to jump into lightning round. We're, we're getting towards the end here.

[00:52:42] Um, so I'm just going to bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Some questions at you. Number one, where do you go when you die? 

[00:52:50] Josh: Ooh, man.

[00:52:55] Ah, man. Whoa, that is, ooh, that's heavy. Um, I [00:53:00] I don't really know how I feel about religion currently. So I feel like my current understanding is I feel like, I don't know. I just, I, I don't know. Maybe heaven, maybe hell, maybe nothing. I don't know. I haven't figured it out yet, but that's honestly my plan for the next record is to just figure this religious shit out.

[00:53:21] Oh, good. Yeah. I can grab it. If you get that done, 

[00:53:23] Franki: that's there's your Grammy right there and maybe a Nobel peace prize and maybe a few other things while you're at it. Yeah. Um, is there a God? Yeah. 

[00:53:32] Josh: Uh, I believe there's a god. I don't know if we understand who he truly is, but I feel like there is some kind of divine being.

[00:53:40] I feel like there has to be. Cause, shit man, there's gotta be some hope somewhere. If not, we're all gonna fuckin die in a nuclear holocaust, and then fuckin roaches are gonna take over the planet. 

[00:53:51] Franki: Might happen anyway. Yeah, 

[00:53:53] Josh: honestly. 

[00:53:53] Franki: Can, can anyone be a musician? 

[00:53:56] Josh: I think Yes, I think anyone can be a musician.

[00:53:59] [00:54:00] I don't think everybody can be an artist, but I think anyone can be a musician. 

[00:54:02] Franki: Cool. Do you really believe that anyone is 100 percent straight?

[00:54:09] Josh: No, no, there's no, like, I feel like if we had an honest conversation about sexuality as like a culture, we would realize that everybody's a little gay. Like, you don't realize, you're like, oh, I just love these like, Ryan, Ryan Riddle movies. I just love the Deadpool movies. Ryan Riddle's just such a charismatic guy.

[00:54:28] It's because you're kind of gay for him. Like, be honest with yourself. That's cool. That's okay. That's cool. You know what I mean? It's 

[00:54:34] Franki: totally cool 

[00:54:35] Josh: in college. And I was definitely like, I'm totally straight. But like Jaden Smith, just like something about his fashion. No, nigga, you're, you're kind of gay.

[00:54:42] It's okay. Like everybody's a little gay. I think that's like, especially like anybody else. I think all the boomers are like way more than a little gay. I think they're just like, I think like all boomers are like, like 70 percent gay. Don't realize it. But, uh, that's a hot guy right there. Everybody's a little gay.

[00:54:56] Franki: Yeah. Love it. Okay. What's your favorite song? [00:55:00] Ooh, 

[00:55:02] Josh: uh, favorite song of all time.

[00:55:10] You know what? I think I have a definitive answer, honestly. Because I think this song, like, changed how I viewed music. Uh, Human Sadness by Julian Casablancas and The Voids. That song is a 10 minute song about the stages of grief and it is weird. It is abrasive. And it is like that listening in that song when I was 19, like, it was like, it's like unlocked a part of my brain where I understood music.

[00:55:31] I was like, Oh no, I like, that was what got me into, that was like my springboard into like so many different genres was listening to that one song. 

[00:55:38] Franki: Yeah. Cool. Love that. What's your favorite book? 

[00:55:42] Josh: Favorite book? Ooh, um, probably the autobiography of Malcolm X I feel like is like, I think a book that really shaped how I, like, shaped my entire, like, post high school.

[00:55:58] I read it like my, I think, [00:56:00] junior, senior year of high school, no, senior year of high school. And I feel like had I not read that book, I don't think I would have, I was, I grew up a radical, like my parents are very radical people. So I feel like I grew up very like radical and like pro black, but I feel like that was like the springboard to me choosing that on my own instead of like inheriting that.

[00:56:17] Franki: Nice. And after that beautiful answer, um, here's this question. What's your favorite color? 

[00:56:24] Josh: Favorite color? Ooh. Uh, burgundy. Honestly, I have like my burgundy back. Like I feel like if I get anything, it's always like a burgundy, something like a beanie, backpack. Like, I love burgundy. 

[00:56:36] Franki: Cool. What's your favorite flavor?

[00:56:38] Josh: Favorite flavor? Ooh. Favorite flavor. Favorite flavor. Um,

[00:56:50] favorite flavor. Uh, you know what? I always liked any bit of lime. You know what? Oh, nice. I feel like, like. 

[00:56:57] Franki: Like a key lime pie? 

[00:56:59] Josh: Oh yeah, I'll [00:57:00] fuck up anything with lime, honestly. Like, I'm definitely like the lime in the beer. Uh huh. Sometimes I'll just sip like Mezcal or tequila on the rocks with a little bit of lime juice, honestly.

[00:57:10] So, probably lime, maybe. 

[00:57:12] Franki: Sick. Do you have a word of the year? 

[00:57:15] Josh: Word of the year? Honestly, I feel like my word of every year is nigga. Honestly, it's just, it's, it's, I, I hate, it's one of my, like, I grew, as I grew up in the South, like it's just a word that refers to so many different things. It's like the ultimate word.

[00:57:33] It's like what John is 

[00:57:34] Franki: in Philly. 

[00:57:35] Josh: It is. It is. It's literally like, it's, I mean, we have, it's so funny John's Philly cause, uh, Memphis, we have junk. Uh, that's our, our nice John. Yeah. It's either John or, uh, or ho. Yeah, get that, bring that over 

[00:57:48] Franki: here. 

[00:57:48] Josh: Yeah, exactly. But, uh, Odyssey is gonna be nigga, I'm sorry mom.

[00:57:53] Uh, it's, it's, it's just I use it all the time, it's like It's all, it's a, it's a reaction The way, depending how [00:58:00] you inflect it Uh huh. Like, it, it just, it works. 

[00:58:03] Franki: It's a very versatile word. 

[00:58:05] Josh: It's also my superpower, like, not everyone can say it. 

[00:58:07] Franki: Yeah. 

[00:58:08] Josh: Yeah. 

[00:58:10] Franki: Okay. Um, fuck, marry, kill, but you have to choose them.

[00:58:15] Josh: Okay. Oh, fuck, marry, kill. Uh, I'll do the cast of the bear. Um, so I'm going to marry Sid, um, fuck, harm me, kill, uh, how was the, the pastry guy? He's played by Lionel. Um, I'm going to kill him just cause like during that one episode, the last, the next last episode of season one where, oh, wait, wait, have you not seen it?

[00:58:41] Franki: I haven't seen it, but just in general for the listener, spoiler alert. 

[00:58:45] Josh: He kind of pissed me off cause they were in the middle of a rush and he was talking about, he made this a donut. And as like a former food service worker, if someone did that to me, I would punch them in the face. So I feel like I would kill him, even though I love him as a character.

[00:58:56] And he's great. He's developed in season two is beautiful, but 

[00:58:58] Franki: donut conversation [00:59:00] got him killed. 

[00:59:00] Josh: Yeah. Sadly, that's what you 

[00:59:02] Franki: get, bud. That's what you get. Okay. We're going to jump into writing a line of a song. The song goes. This is just one line of a song written by each of the previous guests so far.

[00:59:15] God is an echo of your thoughts. God is the ocean in the blue raindrops. Come with me, the sky is getting dark. Tomorrow never is too far. Verse one. Idols are poisoning your thoughts. Real is what you make it and it's been here all along. There's no extra credit for suffering. So live it up, this life is your only one.

[00:59:33] That's verse two. And then take my hand is the start of the chorus. So you're kind of like line two of the chorus. 

[00:59:44] Josh: I kind of like, the first thing I thought of, like, take my hand, peel the polish off my nail. 

[00:59:49] Franki: Fuck yeah, love that. So visual.

[00:59:55] Done. That's so good. 

[00:59:59] Josh: It was, we were already talking [01:00:00] about nail polish, I was like, oh yeah, perfect. 

[01:00:01] Franki: Yeah, that's so good. Black hippie, peel the polish off my nails. Okay, that's so good. I love that. Nice. Alright, so, if this podcast had a slogan, 

[01:00:15] Josh: Good vibes, better hair.

[01:00:21] Franki: Good vibes, better hair. Uh, 

[01:00:29] Josh: I think I'm good, honestly. This was fun, honestly. This was great. This made my day, honestly. I was a little sleepy. This kind of energized me a 

[01:00:36] Franki: bit. Good. Well, we've, we've come to the end of yet another delightful episode of music. gay. You can connect with us on Instagram at music, D O T G A Y.

[01:00:46] It's all spelled out music. gay and email us at music. gay at gmail. com. Also all spelled out. You've heard Josh talk now go hear them rock by visiting BLVCKHIPPIEblackhippie. com. [01:01:00] Check out their brand new record basketball camp on their site. And do everyone a favor by ordering a copy. You can even possibly pick up vinyls at the end of the summer?

[01:01:10] Josh: Yes. Maybe? Yeah. Sweet. 

[01:01:11] Franki: Fingers crossed, 

[01:01:12] Josh: fingers crossed. 

[01:01:13] Franki: Visit Josh on Instagram at blackhippie901, B L V C K H I P P I E 901. That again, Memphis area code. And do everything you can to support all gay music. Support straight music. Support music in general, support everyone you can support. Have yourself a wonderful week and a wonderful life and we'll be back in a couple weeks with another episode.

[01:01:35] I will see you then. Thank you listeners and thank you once again, Josh. Much love. Appreciate you.