Queers Love an Unhinged Villain | Binoy | music.gay

In this heartfelt and often hilarious episode of "Music.gay," join us as we dive deep into the life and music of Binoy, a bone-a-fide 100% gay musician whose story transcends borders and genres.

https://www.binoymusic.com
From his multicultural roots, Binoy shares his growth into self-discovery, the joy and challenge of embodying queerness in his music, and the profound influence of Disney villains on the creative process of his new track, Villain Arc.

We explore his methods of music production, the power of representation, and the importance of finding one's voice in a world that often demands conformity. This episode is a conversational celebration of identity, creativity, and the unbreakable bond between the two. 🎵💜

🌈 Subscribe, like, and comment to join our community. Share this episode with those who dream, struggle, and create. Follow @musicdotgay and definitely follow @binoymusic on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok for more insights, and to connect with our guest to support his art. His voice matters— so let's amplify it together.

🌟 For collaborations, to sponsor, to suggest guests, and more, reach out to us at musicdotgay@gmail.com. Listen, share, and be inspired. 🎵💜

Visit us at https://www.music.gay

Transcript

Binoy: I love the villain and I love an unhinged villain at that.

Franki: Hello and welcome to episode number one of MUSIC.GAY. I'm your host Franki Jupiter. This is a podcast by queer musicians about queer musicians and for everyone who loves queer musicians.

I am talking today with Binoy and we talk about his new song, Villain Arc available everywhere that you stream music. We talk about everyone's favorite Disney drag queen Ursula. We talk about how it feels to work with really good producers. The importance of feeling represented in a space, going back home to family and how that might look a little different for queer folks. We talk about the joy of creating an album and the difficulties of touring. So like two horny 20-somethings who just met at Pride and discovered that they're both on Molly.

Let's fucking do it. So welcome to the very first episode of music.gay. I'm super excited to be kicking things off here with Binoy.

And Binoy goes by he him pronouns and possibly hee/haw pronouns when he's around his Cosmic Cowboys. He was born to Indian and Sri Lankan immigrants in Nairobi, Kenya. And he leans into that Indian heritage and the East African upbringing to shape his unique borderless pop style. 

He's a multi instrumentalist, singer, songwriter and producer whose influences range from Taylor Swift to Fleetwood Mac, Abba to Mika and his lens as a queer person of color informs his deep storytelling and musical stylings. And it allows him to create safe spaces and sometimes somewhat unwelcoming world. His aim is to create music that fosters communities that can relate to the experiences he writes about and who connect with his lyrics, his rich soundscapes and his world influences. 

And I would say his aim is very true. I've listened to a lot of his music. It is fantastic. It's super theatrical. 

It's so much fun. And in both subject matter and notes on the scale, he has some serious range. You can hear that range by getting on Spotify and listening to his new song Villain Arc, it just came out at the end of January. And you can also just look up Binoy B I N O Y and visit BinoyMusic.com or @BinoyMusic on TikTok and Instagram to find out more about show dates to buy to download and to stream his amazing music and to pick up some dope merchandise. Honestly, check out the shop on the website. The Cosmic Cowboy Hat and the Boys Boys Boys T-shirt are by far my favorite. Honestly, who does your designs, by the way? 

Binoy: I do. I do most of them myself and actually one of my good friends, Steffi, who Steffi Tian, she is a graphic designer. She does a lot of the text work. And then when it comes to the actual designs, I'm I'm sort of the one who takes charge on that. Cool. 

Franki: Yeah. I'm almost not even really surprised that you've got talents all across the board. But we're not here to talk about graphic design. Of course, we're here to talk about music. So Binoy, I'm Frankie. It's so nice to meet you. Welcome to music.gay. So let's start. If you could give me your pitch of who Binoy is and what he does. Yeah. 

Binoy: So I am a pop artist, writer and producer. I consider myself sort of borderless in my approach to music. I think genre, something I always like to say is genre is a construct. 

And so I tend to pull a lot of references from different areas, different eras and different parts of the world, really trying to make music that brings to life my experience as a queer person of color. I think growing up, there was really a lack of representation for myself. You know, I never got to see me reflected and represented in any sort of mainstream media. And growing up, I recognized what the absence of that sort of caused in me. And inadvertently, I think my goal is just to represent my experiences and do so authentically, making sounds and music that I really love. And as I said, pulls from just a really vast array of different influences and references. 

Franki: That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, it's very much be the change you wish to see in the world, right? Like you're doing something that. I think you probably I think you probably wish and I think all of us wish that we had seen certain role models to model behaviors, relationships, music, just to look like us and for us to be able to see ourselves in growing up. And so it's it's kind of amazing to be in a position now to become that person for yourself and for the next generations. 

Binoy: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think it's it's always interesting because I don't think I go about, you know, making and releasing things with the intention of, Oh, I really want some person to see this and feel really seen. It's honestly more like a process of healing for myself. Like, oh, I am creating work that today I love listening to and watching and would have as a child or as a teenager or a young adult. And hopefully, like just through that process, inadvertently, I'm creating that same experience for someone else. 

Franki: Totally. Yeah. And I think that's a good point because it would be a little bit it's it can be very confronting and actually very difficult to just move ahead if you're constantly looking into the mirror and being like, is this who I want to portray myself as, etc. etc. But let's step back just a second. Like, how did you get into music in the first place? What was your path into becoming a musician? 

Binoy: So when I was about six years old, I was introduced to the piano by my parents. I learned pretty much like classically trained piano. I had this wonderful old, wonderful old Canadian piano teacher, Mrs. Nabutete. 

Gosh, what an icon. And yeah, she I just went over there like three times a week and did my lessons with her. She was really into, you know, all of her classical music, teaching me a lot of theory. And I was playing like hours and hours every single day at home to the point that then I started playing and, you know, little recitals and competitions. And then at some point I decided, OK, I'm really over this classical approach to music. It felt very sort of limiting. 

And I think looking back in hindsight, it was very much my inner artist kind of coming out being like, oh, I like this, but I want more. I want different approaches and I want different sounds and scales to play with. And so then when I was about 12, 13, I picked up saxophone, first alto and then tenor. 

And that was a completely different approach. It was all jazz and it was, you know, playing in orchestras and jazz bands. And that, you know, as a teenager, really became the main focus of my just musical endeavors. I shifted towards saxophone and then clarinet. 

And the piano sort of took a bit of a back seat because I think I was just a little burned out. And then when I was about 16, you mentioned Taylor Swift as a big influence of mine. I started listening to more and more Taylor Swift and Fleetwood Mac and a lot of the aforementioned artists. And that really inspired me to get into songwriting. 

You know, I had this really good theoretical base and framework, which really helped me, I think, when it came to like the composition and just like chord progressions and all of that. And I also really loved writing. Like English was my favorite subject in school. I loved writing and reading poetry. 

And so it just felt like a really natural progression and just kind of a match made in heaven. So yeah, in high school towards the end of my time there, I set up with a couple of friends. It was called the Composers Club. 

I don't think it exists in my high school anymore. It was a place where just musicians like came together and wrote songs. Some of the people were just singers who didn't really write, but then we would write stuff and give it to them and we would put on these concerts. And it was a really good time. That was really my first foray into the world of creating songs. 

Franki: Yeah. And was this in Kenya? Were you in Kenya at this point? 

Binoy: Yeah, this was in Kenya. I think all through I stayed in Kenya growing up there until I was 18 and I first left when I was 18 to go to university in London. And even when I was in London, I was studying something completely unrelated to music. And yet I kept frequenting studios just to help them out as a session musician or I started working as kind of like an errand boy at this one studio in Soho. And that really kind of, I guess, gave me a pathway into the world of production. And it taught me that, oh, I love writing songs and I love writing lyrics, but there's so much that I don't know when it comes to, you know, I just found that more often than not, the vision you would hear an artist come into a studio with versus what was created, I think I learned the role of a producer is really to take that vision and just expand it and bring their own little touches into it and really build a world from the vision of whoever comes in with it. And it just really inspired me to want to learn how to produce. And so as soon as I was done with university in London, then I moved to LA. 

And that was really the next step in the journey was learning a lot more about production and composing for, you know, visual media and that kind of thing and really like using those foundational skills I got when I was younger and bringing it into like a practical setting where I could actually make tangible things. 

Franki: Yeah. That's kind of amazing. I mean, like going from instrument to voice and writing into production, it's like kind of a perfect arc of sorts to like put you where you are now. And are you doing the production on, are you doing most of the production, all the production on your like the stuff that's coming out now, like Villain Arc, for instance, has that, have you created most of that? 

Binoy: So when was it? I'd say the end of 2019. Up until the end of 2019, I was self-producing every single thing that I released. And it was pretty much all like self-produced, mixed and mastered. I was really a bit of a control freak. And also, you know, I guess I wanted like really firm hands on the project because fun fact, the very, very first little anecdote, the very first song that I ever made and released like onto DSPs was back at the start of 2016. But I made that song, you know, in 2015 at one of the studios that I was helping out at. And what ended up happening is the vision that I took in and what I wanted the song to turn into, they just took it in a completely different direction. And I felt, you know, I was young and I was just emotional and I felt a little bit jaded from that whole experience in the sense that I, I don't know, I felt like my art had been taken from me and it had been turned into what someone else wanted it to be. And I think that that, you know, left the residual just like feelings and so-called trauma of always wanting to like traumatizing for sure. Yeah, you know, and that's I think where all of that desire to really like hold everything super close to my chest and not let anyone into the process came from. 

But at the end of 2019, there was a shift. I was working with an artist development team and they were really encouraging me to just like start working with people like collaborating. And so I did some research, found a couple of producers who I really liked who were still very, very early in their careers. 

And one of them, his name is Arthur Besna. He is the person that I sort of ended up wanting to work with. And since really the end of 2019, when we made our first song together, you know, we did that one totally virtually, it was all like on zoom. And we never really met in person because he wasn't fully living in LA at that point. But afterwards, we started working together in person. And just like this really beautiful friendship kind of formed from all of that. I think having like trust and friendship with your collaborators is it's not required, but it really, really does help. Because you know, it really is. 

Franki: It's so crucial, right? Like it's not required, but sort of might as well be. Honestly, I think people don't always understand that this is family at that point. Like you're choosing people who you love to create something that's coming from the depth of your soul. There's like this weird little marriage that happens. And like, even if you don't see them every day, you only see them in the studio or whatnot. Like, there's such a closeness that forms between these people who are volunteering parts of their souls to like co-mingle and be recorded for all of time. 

Binoy: It's kind of crazy. Absolutely. There is like so much vulnerability that comes to the surface during the process of creating something, even if it's just, you know, in the idea sharing portion of it. Or, you know, the fact that sometimes you get up and stand in front of the mic and you are just doing something you've never ever done before, or you're talking about feelings that you haven't really spoken about before. And like there's a lot of vulnerability in that room, a lot of honesty. 

And I think having someone you really hold close to you and who you feel understands you is such a huge thing. So to finally get back to your question, when it comes to the stuff that I'm making now, I've actually, Arthur likes to call it old school producing. I stand in the room and I tell him what to do. And he'll sort of take his interpretation of what I'm saying and sort of do something. And, you know, the beauty of having a background in production is if in the rare instance, I don't really like what he's done, I can really like sit down and show what I'm thinking of. 

Franki: You can start mashing buttons and actually do what you want, right? 

Binoy: Totally. Yeah. And it's like, I think he actually, we've spoken about it a lot. He really loves having that kind of artist in the room because there is so much like technical know-how between the two of us. He's also a phenomenal musician, so he understands music theory. 

And we speak a lot of the same language. And that gives me the trust that I need to sort of just say, okay, here is the idea, here's the vision, here's the song. I do all of the songwriting myself in terms of the lyrics and most of the composition. And to take those very beautiful and dear parts of me to him and say, okay, let's turn this into like, let's build a world from this is something I'm very grateful to have. And I'm really happy that I opened myself up to just that process of collaboration. 

Franki: That's awesome. Yeah. And I think there's like, there's this element of almost like translation, right? When you see a book in its native language, it can speak differently than if you see it translated into English or into some other language that you also read and understand. And it's the same feeling, it's the same idea, but maybe in its native language, it hits a little harder or it feels a little different. 

And it's like bringing in all of the language, right, of that language, it's bringing in the colloquialisms, it's like kind of getting the idea of it and shaping it so that culturally it makes sense. And I think that when we work with collaborators, like, we're doing that in a way, right? We're telling them, here's my raw data, here's my original language of what this should feel like, what this should sound like, and then we're allowing them to take their own sort of transliteration or interpretation and kind of go, oh, so kind of like this. And sometimes we hear it back and we're like, oh, that's exactly what I meant. And sometimes we hear it back and we go, oh my God, that's pretty much what I meant, but better. 

You know, it's kind of amazing that the way that that process shapes things. And it sounds like in your creative process, you probably start off with the seed of an idea, are you making voice notes to yourself? Are you writing things down? Like what is your kind of walk me through the quick start to finish where you first have the seed of an idea and it germinates and then you end up with this final product? 

Binoy: It happens differently in, you know, at the time. Most, more often than not, it starts with a title and a concept kind of. Oh, cool. You know, it'll be, yeah, it'll be like a feeling that I want to make a song about or, you know, I love sort of taking something conventional and trying to approach it in a bit of an unconventional way. And so let's say with the villain arc, since that's what we're talking about, I'll give you sort of a rundown of that process. You know, it started with just this desire to bring to life a lot of the feelings that I have when I'm just struggling with envy, which is something that in my life I have struggled with a lot is, you know, looking at other people, other things and just feeling this just solid pang of jealousy. And it creates a very almost like unhinged and vengeful version of myself in my own brain. 

Franki: And I wanted to Is that what the character is that sort of, because I assume people are going to listen to this, I'm going to play this at the beginning probably, there's this character that comes in around the one minute mark, where all of a sudden it's just like talking to camera kind of is that this character for you? Absolutely. 

Binoy: That the whole middle section was like, that's my ego. And it's my ego. And I thought that was just a really fascinating. I was really inspired by Ursula from the Little Mermaid. Yes. 

Franki: I have I have it written down. I'm like, is this a Disney dialogue 100%? 

Binoy: Yes, it's very Ursula. It's very Cruella de Vil. I love the villain. I'm like Regina George Stan, you know, like I love the villain and I love an unhinged villain at that. 

And so I really wanted to just explore that imagery and that, I don't know, just like those character tendencies and moments, but also with like a full recognition that, okay, this is definitely not who I am all the time. 

Franki: I think that there's a pretty well known, I don't know if you call it a trope, but there is, there is Disney villains are queer, right? Like we can, we can say that. There's something that over time, there has always been this queerness and this sort of otherness. And like for me, I think, like Jafar was one of those people who simultaneously terrified me and attracted me. And I was like, ooh, I kind of want to be this, I kind of want to be with this, I kind of want to be around it. Like there's something in the villain and the villain arc that I think appeals to queer people and maybe vice versa. Like, can you speak to that a little bit and how that influenced the song? 

Binoy: Yeah, 100%. I think there have been so many, even just like little think pieces and studies about the queerness of a lot of Disney villains in particular and how that like, I'll call it fabulousness, but that other sort of identity has been over time just placed in positions of, this is bad, this is evil, this is malicious, this is not good. And I think so many queer people that I know, they really deeply resonate with a lot of villains in the sense that they feel misunderstood, they feel outcast and they are so, as a result, they've almost become grandiose with their identity. And I think that Jafar is a great example, obviously Ursula, even like, I know Corella Deville is not good, but like, what a fabulous bitch, you know? Yeah, there is just so much to be said about that relationship between just like otherness and queerness in particular and the so-called role of the villain. Yeah. It's something that I've thought about a lot in my life, just this, just the strange fact that whenever there is a sort of movie, especially ones that have really clear cut like, this is good and this is evil, there's always like a soft spot, call it like rooting for the underdog, but I always have a soft spot where I'm like kind of rooting for the villain. 

Franki: And I just really want to know about that. And they're always more interesting characters. Yeah, they're complex, they're multifaceted, there's a mark to them, you know? And that's like, I think coming to why I chose the word arc in, you know, villain 

Binoy: arc, a villain isn't just like born, you know, you sort of become that way. And there is a trajectory that sort of one goes through a series of unfortunate events, let's call it. And yeah, that's why in the middle section of the song, there is that very like inspired by Ursula, like the deep voice, which is really meant to be the ego, you know, talking, it's talking to oneself. It's the kind of drunken in a haze mirror talk that you're having in the bathroom. And it's when you're just trying to motivate yourself to go up and get up and go out and be in the party, even though you feel just so unwelcomed there, and it doesn't even have to be a party, it can be any sort of situation. But the whole trajectory of the song is really that's life, right? 

Exactly, 100%. And it just ebbs and flows between like feeling very empowered in this villainry and feeling very dejected. And I just think that was an important duality to sort of reflect in the song, because that is really the nature of those kinds of negative emotions, as they can feel like fire, but sometimes it can just feel like you're actually being genuinely quite like burned by it. 

And yeah, it ends in this like mad fury of like drum and bass. And you know, when it comes to the process of how we made the song, it really was a case of I just took the idea into Arthur, I had a few lyrics sort of written out in my notes app, but nothing very concrete, no structure in particular, just the idea that I wanted three very distinct sections to sort of reflect this like arc kind of shape. And you know, we got to making the demo, which was, you know, the three very distinct sections. 

And from there, it was just this really, really fun exercise and challenge in top lining and figuring out how to make the concept and the story work in a very, very short two and a half minutes. And just cherry, yeah, a lot of the ideas that I had lyrically. And you know, that's always when you approach a song with a sort of high concept mindset. I think the challenge is always, okay, how do I convey exactly what it is that I want to convey in such a limited amount of time, because there's always copious amounts of lyrics. 

And there's so much that you want to say, that you just have to be very, very, I guess, specific and good at editing in order to really like get to the point where you use all two and a half minutes super effectively and make sure you're getting across the point and the idea and the vibe. And when it came to Villain Arc, I was so, so proud of how I navigated the whole right. 

Franki: Totally. It's funny to even think of it. It's funny to even think of it as a song, because to me, it feels like a very like a Sonic 3 act play. Like there's this real sense of like, you're not necessarily people aren't singing along with like the villain dialogue necessarily, but it's playing within you as you're hearing it. And I think it's a really powerful like kind of narrative sonic piece, I mean, which is a song, it's obviously definitely a song. And there's some serious groove, especially in that third act. But yeah, that's really cool. 

And let's just hop, I think, from here in Segway. You know, obviously the music is in it's an extricable part of you, but there is also the the the dot gay part, the queerness. And I'm curious, like to know from you, how do you define for yourself? 

Like, I mean, obviously, there is this one small facet of it, which is the fabulous villainousness as it were. But what are the aspects of your queerness that like most closely resonate with you? I mean, I think the lexicon is always growing. And it's just fun to hear how different people talk about their identity and their sexuality and how that expresses itself. Hmm. 

Binoy: That's a good question. I think something I think about a lot is with a lot of, you know, regardless of how someone chooses to identify because I have friends who are who will call themselves gay, some will prefer to call themselves queer. And I think that firstly, in and of itself, there is like variation and, you know, within the terminology, like I will I tend more to call myself queer because I feel like it, I don't know, it sort of embraces a greater sense of fluidity, especially, you know, as as you said, the pronouns that I identify with are key him and his. But I absolutely also feel a sense of like androgyny and femininity. And I think that for me, I don't know, the term queer, it just feels more aligned with my identity, although I have no problem. 

So I frequently refer to myself as gay. But when it comes to specifics of the identity, something I think about a lot is this real marriage of like softness and from, well, I think they're actually both rooted in the same place, because I think the softness really comes from feeling ostracized and being misunderstood for a large part of our lives and recognizing what that can do to someone like we are so familiar with that with that emotion of feeling welcomed in a space, unwelcome. 

Franki: The empathy, it kind of breeds within you, right? Like the ability to understand. 

Binoy: Exactly. You know, it creates a sense of like, okay, I know what it feels like to not be welcome. So I want to always try and be a welcome presence. And I think that 100% it creates this natural softness within a lot of us. But it can also and like, the two really go hand in hand. You know, you have that classic stereotype of like, oh, the gays are super sassy, the gays are just like jagged on the edges. And I think that is true for a lot of people. 

Franki: I think you said cunty earlier, I think was a perfect word for it. Yeah. 

Binoy: Yeah, very cunty. And I can be that too, you know, as much as I consider myself like soft, kindhearted, sweetheart, I can also be a bitch, not intentionally, but like, you know, there is just a sense of like, okay, I have been fucked with enough in my life and don't fuck with me anymore, you know? 

Franki: It's a sort of a sort of assertiveness and like standing up for yourself. Absolutely. 

Binoy: Yeah, I think a lot of us really, as we get older, you know, I was just at home for Christmas and New Year's, and it was my first time home in a few years. And something that really has happened over these past few years is I've just come more into my own, like stepped into my identity a lot more, become a lot more empowered. 

It's, you know, now started to seep its way into my art, which is for me, just a really clear, just example of the fact that like, okay, I am very proud about my identity and I've worked very hard to get to that point. But I think a lot of us feel it when we're, you know, with our families, sorry, the garbage truck is outside causing an actual soundstorm. I don't know if you can hear that, but it's gone now. I can. 

Yeah. And yeah, it's something that I think when a lot of us go home to our families who we might not, you know, spend a ton, a ton, a ton of time with, it can, it can bring out like the harder and more jagged side of us, because obviously we're returning to a space and like a group where we have no doubt probably felt a lot of love, but also probably a lot of like lack of acceptance and a lot of judgment. And those are the kinds of spaces where I think character is really sort of exactly. Yeah, prickly is exactly the right word. 

Franki: How do you find yourself like, I guess, re-assimilating in some ways to spaces like that, like there are certain spaces where we seek out that are intentionally created like concerts, for instance, or like certain reading circles, different kind of like groups, even certain bars, like if you're in LA, I'm in the Bay Area, like it's easy to find a lot of queer spaces. And then you go home to Kenya, I go home to, you know, middle Midwest Missouri, and they're all of a sudden like the spaces are a little more claustrophobic for queerness in a way. And like, when you find yourself in those kinds of spaces, what do you find yourself struggling with? And how do you find yourself overcoming that? 

Or do you? Or do you just kind of maybe code switch a little to be a little softer or a little less offensive to people around you? I'm always curious to see how people manage those spaces. 

Binoy: Yeah, it's interesting because that's something I was really, I guess, confronted with in my trip back home, because I have just grown so used to. And so familiar with, you know, being in a space where I can just go out and find other people like me living their lives very publicly and having sort of an absence of that, you know, especially I was visiting my family and I'm out to everyone there with the exception of my grandma, because I think that would, you know, that she just wouldn't take that piece of information well. And in particular, I didn't even have a lot of time or opportunity to just go out and try and find queer spaces and spaces that would feel like I could really let my guard down in that sense. And so there was a part of me that, you know, it was almost this regression back to performing in a lot of ways, far, far less than I used to when I was a child and even years ago when I would go back after I was out, but still like, you know, still battling with that identity. 

And I think something I really, really felt was just a lack of community, so to speak. Like I was going through a tough time in terms of my relationship with my dad over the past few months. And while I was back home, you know, my dad, my parents aren't together. 

And so my dad wasn't there. But I was still doing a lot of the heavy work of processing, you know, the dynamics of our relationship. And I just felt like I didn't necessarily have a safe, space to do that in and to just like really let the guard down and be exactly who I wanted to be. I was always, you know, biting my lip in a sense, I believe the appropriate on the topic of queerness, but stonewalling is the term where like conversations of dinner might be happening. And I just fully like, you know, go like blank faced and I'm just keeping everything internal and putting on. 

Franki: It's like you turn down the queer knob, you're like, oh, better just let's just hit mute on that while I'm here, I guess for safety for, yeah, kind of it's a weird kind of way that I think we accommodate for others, right? Like for their smallness, we shrink ourselves to be like, well, I guess this is the amount of space we have. Yeah, absolutely. 

Binoy: I think in talking about like, how I sort of remedied some of it, I found myself just watching and consuming a lot of like queer adjacent or queer art, like I just watched a lot of Drag Race and that made me feel a sense of like, you know, oh, wow, these are my people. And I don't know, it just really goes to and also, of course, by the way, a huge, huge thing that I was doing during this time is I was writing and I was trying to make music because, you know, as I mentioned before, a lot of my creative process is therapeutic in the sense that I feel like it's sort of a processing tool for a lot of like, my emotions. 

And in this case, it was like grief and identity questions. And it's just such a natural place, I think after all these years of doing it for me to just turn, you know, to my pen and just try and write out how I'm feeling and then get really lost in the exercise of like, how can I turn all of these feelings into something tangible and like give it structure and give it, you know, beauty and some sort of like unique element and turn it into a song that I feel like is something special yet also something that is like so true to how I'm feeling right now. And yeah, I think regardless of what your art medium is or, you know, whether it's not even in the arts, but just like having your personal little thing that just feels like it's yours as a processing tool is just so valuable when you're in spaces like that where you can't fully, freely, you know, express yourself. And even when you are in those spaces, those are really important to us to have. 

Franki: I want to jump in here, right? So as kind of the antidote, I think in some ways to being in those spaces where things feel confining or constricting or small or non-welcoming, there's the flip side, which is that there are queer communities, there are allies, there are other people who are much more aligned with the way that we feel kind of regardless of sexuality, but they're supporting members of the LGBTQIA plus community and or they are that community. What are those spaces like for you? How important are they to you? How do you find them? How do you maintain your connections, etc.? 

Binoy: Yeah, I think firstly, I've heard a lot of people sort of speak truth to this and it just seems logically to make a lot of sense that I think when you are in communities that are a lot more regressive and therefore these communities of like allyship and also like inclusivity, where they are quite small, those communities tend to be a lot more tight in it because obviously that really is a lifeline for people as opposed to just like a social culture. And I think when you're in a city like LA or like New York or like San Francisco, it's almost just like it's really taken for granted actually and I think communities tend to develop and then unravel quite easily as a result which is unfortunate, but I was really lucky actually just by chance when I was in Nairobi recently. I met someone who she's 24 and she identifies as bisexual and pretty much from the jump she clocked me as a little fruity loops. We started talking and soon into it she kind of like pretty quickly especially for the fact that we were in Kenya where queerness is really, it's really almost like punished by violence quite frequently. And so I was quite surprised at how quickly sort of she opened up to me and I guess it is because she had that awareness that I too was part of that same group. And since leaving at 18, I haven't had a lot of opportunities to talk to people there who are in queer communities about their experiences of like navigating friendships and relationships and just the process of sort of finding community. And through her, I was able to really learn a lot about how things have progressed and that is largely because of these small pockets of communities that sort of emboldened each other. You know, now you have far more often than before people kind of living together and they do it under the guise of, oh, we're friends and they were roommates kind of, but actually. 

Franki: Oh, that's your aunt's, that's her best friend, her roommate Pamela. 

Binoy: And don't worry about it. I think you're very bad. And yeah, also just I think the importance of, oh sorry, I lost my train of thought a little bit. I think those communities though are really, really important. 

Franki: Because I think in a space where there's a lot of small personalities that are in big groups or small minds in big groups, to have even a small group with a bunch of very large personalities can make a difference. And I think that as you said earlier, there is this loud fabulousness oftentimes in queer communities. And because it is this lifeline, it's almost incumbent upon us to be emboldened in the ways that we can safely do so. 

And sometimes in ways that are straight up revolutionary and to speak that into power and to be that light for other people who are the misfits or whatever it might be. And I think that you do find often, especially even in allyship, there are people who show up who are not they're not queer necessarily. I mean, I kind of think everyone's a little queer, but they haven't fit in in some way to what is considered to be the normal. And so because we're bucking trends, because we're bucking norms, there is also this sort of queerness at the forefront of a lot of the more colorful parts of culture, be it music, be it art, what have you, fashion, especially. I mean, there's I think that we see that where it's not necessarily always accepted as part of the main thing, but sometimes it can be pedestalized, or it's unavoidable that like you're gonna see loud, colorful people. Yeah, absolutely. Who are some of the people for you that have been kind of like either iconic, or shall we call them queeros, like people who were your heroes that like wore a pride flag that were different, you know, they were queer. That's what I'm trying to ask. 

Binoy: Yeah, I think, okay, so let's start with some musicians. I listened, there was a lot of queen, played in my house, growing up. And, you know, I was obviously very like enamored by Freddie Mercury's voice and his just like energy behind the microphone. And so when the internet became internet, I would like Google him and learned more and more about him and obviously then learned about his queer identity. And also the fact that he was part brown, like he's not a straight up wife. 

Farrokh Bulsara, anyone? It has a mixed heritage, like come on, I was very, just like proud. I was proud that a queer person was at the forefront of this very, very revolutionary and impactful band. I also think about George Michael because I love George Michael's music. He's sort of one that I came into a little bit later in life. 

I was maybe like late teens when I started to really like explore and listen to his music. And again, it was just the story of all of this repressed sexual identity and he was just his heartthrob. And then he just sort of flipped the script and really came into his, well, I guess not super publicly, but he did start to make inroads into the whole coming out process. I think that Freddie 90 is, aside from being a really iconic music video, probably one of the most incredible coming out, but not actually coming out, but very much coming out. But very much coming out. Yeah. Absolutely. And it's just, it's one of my favorite songs of all time. Yeah, same. 

Franki: Yeah. I'm not surprised by that, but I do, I love to hear it because I think a lot of people maybe aren't familiar with that song. And for me, it's like an anthem. I put that song on, full blast. 

I sing it around my house. I put on a jean jacket. I, you know, maybe color my beard a little darker and just go full George Michael on it. I love that. 

Binoy: I love to hear that. Yeah, it's, it's a great song and a really iconic music video. Like so good revolutionary. So more recently, so I genuinely will say, like I know it's a very, you know, big part of queer culture today, but I actually think RuPaul's Drag Race really sort of changed my life. Like it's, yeah, it just introduced me firstly to like drag on a really like grand level, you know, before that I just had a very limited understanding and appreciation of drag. But more than anything, I think it really emboldened me to embrace femininity. And like there is so much innate femininity within me. And it just, you know, it made me feel really safe and more than safe. 

It made me feel really kind of cool to do it. And yeah, there's a lot of obviously RuPaul and, you know, like the judging panel and like the people who created the show, but also a lot of the Queens who have come onto the show. I've really like just getting to listen. I think it's such a special show in the sense that, you know, of course, you have all of the incredible work that they're doing. And it's really such a mecca of creativity, but more than that, just the personal stories that they get to share. And you get to just watch, you know, how their personalities and their characters sort of bloom in this gauntlet that they're put through of just like super grueling challenges, like one after the other in this competitive environment. 

And, you know, I think I think it actually, you know, has a very transformational effect on a lot of the people who go through that process of doing a show. 

Franki: And then watching that happen. Exactly. Sorry. Like the people who I was just going to say, and then the people who watch it are also going through that process sort of vicariously, but also really like it can transform certain things in you to see, again, like you said, people who represent you more than a lot of the, you know, typical archetypes that you've seen on TV over the years or what have you like to see those people go through these transformations and to be elevated and celebrated and all that. Yeah, it has a massive effect. Yeah, absolutely. Would you ever want to be on a show like that? 

Binoy: Oh my gosh, I think about it all the time. What a dream. I think actually, my song Villain Arc, if there is one thing I thought when I was making this, I was like, this would be really perfect for any sort of drag performance. Like you could do stunts and theatrics and everything with that song. So like really, you know, Drag Race is obviously like very high, high goal. 

But just to see like drag queens perform a song like Villain Arc and just use it in their sets, that would be really cool because the song really has a place in that world. 

Franki: I wanted to, we'll just jump into here because I think it's a good segue anyway, to ask you like, what is your biggest dream currently that you're holding on to? 

Binoy: You know, okay, I'll answer it in, I guess, like a simple way. I genuinely just want like a fan base that is sizable enough that makes me like really excited to keep creating and keep releasing music. You know, sometimes I think I just have this constant battle with myself where like, I'm really, really proud of the work that I'm creating. I love it so much. And I've worked very hard to get to this, you know, level that I'm at. And obviously, you know, I just don't feel like I have necessarily a fan base size that reflects what I feel like the quality of my work is. 

Franki: You can't see video because it's not up right now. But this is me hitting myself in the heart because that's exactly where this is landing. I feel you so much on that. I think listening to you, you deserve absolutely millions of adoring fans. And I think that that's on its way for you. 

But it can be a struggle, right? When you're sitting there and you're like, this shit is so good. Where is everyone? You should all be doing back flips right now. 

Binoy: Yeah, well, thank you for saying that. 

Franki: That means a lot to hear it. Especially when you're making music. That's always the most like validating to hear. Yeah. Let's celebrate something that you have achieved. What's a little dream that you've had for yourself that you have already gotten your hands on? 

Binoy: Genuinely, okay. So the the T, the spoiler T is I, Villain Arc is part of my debut album, along with the songs that I just released, Cosmic Cowboy and Boys Boys Boys. And for, it's just the longest time since maybe I was like 13 or 14 years old. 

I always dreamed of making like a full length album that was really just like major, major sleigh. And we're not finished yet. We have a little bit more work to do still. 

But the fact that this body of work has come together in the way that it has, I consistently listened to it, top to tail what we've done so far. And I'm, I just love it. And I'm so proud. And it's a cliche, but it is genuinely true that all of the fulfillment and really the like, the actual fruits of the labor are in the process as opposed to any of the like, validation and any of the praise that you may receive and where it may propel you when all is said and done, it's like who you become while making the piece of work. That's really the success and the achievement. And the fact that I've really, you know, fulfilled this lifelong dream of mine to create a full length album. And to do so at the level that I've done it at is, I mean, it means so much to me. And I, that's awesome. Yeah, I'm really like endlessly proud of myself for it. And I've noticed that like even, you know, with with the release of Villain Arc, I've just become a lot less concerned with like, okay, what new music Friday is it going to land on? 

And how many new fans does it bring? Obviously, that is still like very much in my mind and like, yeah, to a degree at the forefront of it. But when all is said and done, like no one, no one, no one can take away the fact that like I have made this work and I'm putting it out into the world. And that is a product of quite literally like years and years of work. And I think it shows. 

Franki: And that's, yeah, I think I think so too, from what I've heard. And I saw on the track that you sent me because and we'll play it here at the beginning. But I saw the number seven at the beginning of it. 

And I was like, Oh, seven. So that means this is probably part of a full album. So and I'm I'm in the process as well right now, like probably in a similar state to where you are of creating my what I'm considering my debut album, even though I have one out, it wasn't one I was really going to that in a totally different story. But I think that what I was going to say is I'll show you mine if you show me yours. So please send me the whole thing. 

Binoy: I'm dying to listen to it. Yeah. So what is one other thing that is just like in painting the picture of what you sort of want to be doing with this music and where you want it to go? Like what what do you see as the sort of ideal world for an artist for a musician? 

Like, where where can people meet musicians right now that like feels really um fulfilling? Like, that's the question. Yeah. 

Yeah. I that's a good question, actually, because it's really changed obviously over the past decade or so. And now the climate of the music industry is just in really like uncharted territory, I'd say. Totally. I will be totally honest. I enjoy a live show moment. 

I really do. But there's so much that goes into a live show, like cost wise and practice wise. And like, I think in order to be consistently playing live shows and meeting fans in that capacity, you really do have to have like a pretty sizable audience, just because that is sort of what like warrants and necessitates touring. Because again, it is like it has just become very, very expensive and to therefore quite like impractical. I think also with just like the monopoly that certain companies have over a lot of like venues, it just becomes increasingly difficult. 

That being said, that is definitely a goal for maybe like a year or two from now to just like touring with the album. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Just really like giving people a live experience of it and getting to like meet fans face to face. 

Franki: But for now, I can't wait to see your costume change during Villanarque. Oh my gosh. 

Binoy: I'm so excited for people to do the music video for Villanarque because I pulled out some looks for that one. Yes. It's everything. But for now, honestly, I actually think that like, I have a comp as we all do a complicated relationship with social media, in the sense that it can feel like a real job, it can feel like a chore having to get all of that done. But it can also be a really, really fantastic place to interact with fans and just like, I don't know, show actually, if you're using it correctly, show a little bit more of yourself and your personality and your identity beyond just the music. And also, I will say this as like, for the artists that I really, really love and go hard for, whether they're music artists or like drag performers, I love wearing and wrapping their merch, which is why I think I put a lot of love and care and effort into the merch that I design because it's such a beautiful and organic way to show how much you love an artist while really supporting their career. I think honestly, buying merch items when it comes to the financial side of things is a lot more beneficial for an artist than even going to a show or something like that. And also, you get to it's like spreading brand awareness. 

Franki: And totally, it starts conversations, right? Someone goes, oh my god, that's a really cool shirt. Boys, boys, boys. What is the story behind that? Now, all of a sudden, they're talking about their favorite artist, Binoy, right? 

Binoy: Yeah, absolutely. And I love that Spotify has sort of added that feature of like being able to buy merch on the platform itself. I think that Spotify gets a lot of flak from artists because of how it has transformed the industry. 

But that change was coming one way or another. And I think that they've done a pretty good job in the process of all of this change, trying to figure out small ways to, I don't know, just help out artists because when all of a sudden done streaming services, they're an exposure platform, not a revenue tool. Totally. And yeah, it's just about giving the artist exposure and leading people to hopefully those little revenue streams like merch and like shows and to that kind of thing. 

Franki: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I, again, people can find your Spotify just by going on Spotify and typing in B-I-N-O-Y. Nothing else popped up. It's a unique and beautiful name and it's very easy to find. So I think that's a great plug there. I want to ask a couple things about like looking back at little you as a kid or as a teenager or whatever, what would you tell little you about being a musician? Like a couple sentences that if you had, you know, 12 seconds to like speak into the past, what would you tell yourself about being a musician? 

Binoy: Focus on making what it is that you like. Don't worry about what everyone else says or thinks. Trust your intuition, trust your taste level and always, always, always be committed to getting better. 

Franki: Yes. Perfect. What would you tell little you about being queer? 

Binoy: It's... Focus on doing what you like. Absolutely. Absolutely gets easier. And, but it never gets totally easy. You'll always run into people who don't agree with who you are, don't agree with your identity. 

And that's okay. Find community. Your community is really like rocket fuel. And when you're surrounded by people who you feel comfortable to be around, be yourself around, it makes you comfortable to be yourself with yourself. 

And that's a huge thing as well. Perfect. Perfect. Okay. 

I want to do, I want to jump into a lightning round. I'm going to ask you like a handful of questions, just bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. Super fast answers. Where do you go when you die? 

Binoy: Oh my gosh. Like nowhere. Nothingness. Love it. Is there a god? No. Can anyone be a musician? No. 

Franki: Oh, really? Say more. Just slightly more. Yeah, I love this. 

Binoy: I think that you need, well, anyone can learn an instrument, but I think that being able to play an instrument and being a musician are different things. I think that you need to be quite like in touch with some sort of emotional, you need to have like emotional awareness and intelligence to really bring that side of yourself into them. 

Franki: That rules out about 75% of the world, unfortunately. 

Binoy: No, it actually does. 

Franki: It does. Do you believe anyone is actually 100% straight? Yes. Yeah. Okay. It's that 75% again, isn't it? 

Binoy: Well, because that's the thing. Like, here's, this is the argument that I always give, right, is I think I am totally gay. Like, if you made me try and sleep with a woman, I just have zero attraction. 

Like, to everything about it, I just would almost feel like really uncomfortable. And so it's really then like 100%, I believe that there are, let's say like men in the world who are have zero attraction to other men, they can like admire their beauty. Like I can see a woman and admire her beauty, but I am in no way like sexually or physically attracted to her. And you know, that exists in me. So I'm sure it exists in people on the other end of the scale. 

Franki: Yeah, totally. And I imagine perhaps like you and a completely straight person might have more in common in some ways than like someone who's just pan, just whatever. I'll take it. Okay, what's your favorite song? Oh my gosh. Villain are got it. No, no, it's very fun. 

Binoy: Okay, I two songs came to the top of my head. So I'm gonna say State of Grace by Taylor Swift and The Chain by Fleetwood Mac. Sweet. 

Franki: Great, great songs. Favorite book. 

Binoy: I just finished The Song of Achilles and Oh, God, I loved that book. It's really in my top top three. It's so beautiful. 

Franki: It's just really, I cried so much reading that book. 

Binoy: Oh my God. It's like, there are a lot of pages where I reread it because I was like, wow, I just love it. 

Franki: She wrote this like it's so beautiful and it's so thought provoking. Yeah, just really, really an incredible read. I recommend it to anyone who hasn't. There were moments in that book where I felt like I learned completely new hues of love, like new things about love. I was like, oh my God, that is blew me away. So good. Absolutely. 

Yeah, we're gonna go elementary school here. What's your favorite color? Oh my gosh, green. Green. Love it. What's your favorite flavor? Chocolate. Chocolate. What is your word of the year? 

Binoy: God, well, it's only, it's early in the year. Yeah. So like to set the intention for the year. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I'll say this. I'll say curious because a few weeks ago I was with my sister and her boyfriend who is just the most amazing guy I have gotten. I hadn't met him for the past four years, which is how long they've been dating because I hadn't seen her in that long. And I finally got to like hang out with him and he uses the word curious a lot in like many different contexts. 

And I just really enjoyed it every time he said it because I think I started to take note of how often he says it. But I was like, you know what, that is curious or well, you are right to be curious here. And so curious. 

Franki: I love that. That is actually I have written down in my notebook for the year, playful curiosity. That's my phrase of the year. So I'm 100% online there. Fuck Mary kill, but you get to pick them. So I'm not going to give you three options. Who is the fuck? Who is the Mary? Who's the kill? 

Binoy: Okay, God, this is tough. Kill. Let's start with that one easy one. Villain arc. Okay, let's start with I don't know, Justin Bieber, not a fan. Sorry. Bye. Bye, Justin. 

Sorry. We're going with we're going with like, okay, we're going with white men of the week vibes here. So I'm going to marry Jacob Elordi. What a beautiful, beautiful man. 

Franki: Oh, he was he was in salt burn? Is that whom? 

Binoy: Yes, salt burn euphoria. Yeah. What am I doing with him? I'm married. Okay, so who am I fucking? I don't know. Who's just a hot person? I'll go with Omar Apollo, because I need not just straight people here. So I'm going to go with Omar Apollo. I love his music. I think he's very sexy. Amazing. 

Franki: Just first thing that comes to your mind. I would love for you to give me one line of a song that you and I are going to write together. 

Binoy: Cool. Okay, I have one. So I'm looking at our little window here, chat. And there's echo cancellation, which I'm sure you can see that button to yeah, yeah. So I have been deep in my like, I'm always deep in my questioning religiosity bag. And so let's start the song kind of a kind of a deeper line. 

But that's okay, we're going to see what people with this start. God is just an echo of your thoughts. Or let's just say God is an echo of your thoughts. Love it. 

Franki: Love it. Perfect. It's perfect. And it's right at my alley. 

Binoy: Like it ends up as a stripping anthem. 

Franki: Please. Please. Let's hope so. If this podcast had a slogan, what would it be? 

Binoy: I honestly don't know. This is not my vibe in Forte. We're here, we're queer, but here, spell H-E-A-R. That's bad. Yes, love it. You can discard that one. But that's okay. 

Franki: I love it. It's going on. Okay. That's, I think that's it. Is there anything else that you want to say before I like do a little wrap up here? 

Binoy: No, I think I'm all good. 

Franki: I just, yeah, I'm all good. You were fantastic. So thank you so much, Binoy. This was such a pleasure to talk with you and to read and feel into your process and what inspires you and everything. 

It was just a lot of fun. So I'm going to ask the listeners to please go find at Binoy Music, B-I-N-O-Y Music on TikTok and on Instagram and Binoymusic.com. Go buy, go download, go stream, Villenark and all the other great songs. 

Search for it on YouTube, some pretty amazing music videos I might add, and then check out all the merch and everything on Binoymusic.com under the shop menu. And that's it. I mean, this was such a great time. Thank you so much for showing up and for dealing with all this technical difficulty bullshit that we went through. And it's been such a pleasure. And I'll see you around and maybe we'll end up on tour together at some point. Yeah. 

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It was really, really fun. This is my first time doing anything like this and technical difficulties aside, honestly, even including that. It was just a great time. I loved it. 

Franki: Ah, agreed. And you absolutely killed it. It was like wonderful. I feel like you've done this a million times over. You're very much ready for press. So we'll see you there. Cheers. Thanks again. All right. Bye. 

That's it. Thank you for listening to this episode, watching this episode, however you consume this episode. Thank you for being here for music.gay. We are a baby podcast. We just started and we're trying to figure out some things as we move forward here. So this would be the part normally where I'd ask you to rate and review if you liked the show, which you're welcome to do that. But what I would really love is for a handful of people, I'm going to accept maybe 20 or so people who send me an email at music.gay at gmail.com. M-u-s-i-c-d-o-t-g-a-y at gmail.com. 

So all spelled out. And just let me know that you want to be part of this little group of sort of a queer think tank. I'm going to try to build and see. I'll probably send some stuff I haven't released yet and see if it's too racy to release or send you some A, B photo options for different things and have you guys vote on them. Maybe might have you blast some stuff out to social media. I don't know. Basically, I would love to have just a little core group of people who really believe in this show and believe that it should reach a wider audience and who can spend like five minutes, maybe 10 minutes a month just doing a couple little things that would really, really help us out and help us grow. 

Even if you have interviewees that you could suggest, feel free to shoot those to me as well at that email address. It's music.gay, the dot is spelled out at gmail.com. And that is it. Thank you so much once again for listening and I hope to see you guys next week. Stay gay. Cheers, queers.